AI generated music

[Tdarcos]

I unfollowed/unfriended/blocked a Twitch acquaintance because every day he started posting everywhere about the "latest album he released" on every platform that exists. He was "releasing albums" about 3-4 times a week, and they were all just AI tracks he was generating off one of those dumb goddamn websites.

Quantity, not quality. You never can tell what interests people, and if you find people who are interested you might build a fan base. Or more. Go back to 1978: on the strength of one hit song, the Starland Vocal Band was able to convince a TV network to let them do a variety show. It died after a few episodes. Their co-host, a comedian, said, during the program, "Being on this show is going to ruin my career. Fortunately, no one will have seen it." It didn't hurt him too much. His name is David Letterman. As I said, you never can be sure what the public will like.

[pinback]

Do you understand why I dislike what he was doing? Clicking a button on a website, cutting and pasting the garbage it generated and then announcing that he's "releasing an album"?

Do you find that in the least bit distasteful/idiotic/obnoxious?

[Tdarcos]

This message is an experiment. I am trying to stay on-topic and ro rgw point. Separate comments over these points are encouraged. Bear with me, doing something well takes practice.

Do you understand why I dislike what he was doing? Clicking a button on a website, cutting and pasting the garbage it generated and then announcing that he's "releasing an album"?

Do you find that in the least bit distasteful/idiotic/obnoxious?

I lost my ability to be disgusted at the music industry once Rick Dees song Disco Duck became the worst #1 song ever made.

Desktop publishing came out, allowing production with documents using a hideously clashing mix of fonts and font sizes. Look at the abomination that is Comic Sans. Phone cameras are used vertically, making videos with chopped sides, instead of turning the phone 90 degrees and getting a normal full-screen image. These are things people dislike.

These things are all tools, they are amoral, neither good nor bad. I'm not the first to point that out, either: “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” - William Shakespeare's Hamlet, Act II, Scene 2 . A good or great tool in the hands of an untrained, unskiled, talentless amateur will produce dreck, but in the hands of a talented expert can produce stunningly beautiful work, whether it is visual (paint, drawing, 3d object creation); audio (music creation, sound editing); both (movies); or things we can't even imagine.

While we can find a lot of this stuff artustically unpleasing, the easy (and cheap) access to these tools democratizes the production of the things people can make with them. For every 100 hacks who throw garbage together and get crap, a few can do anazing things. It's Sturgeon's law in full force and effect: "90% of everything is crap."

I am getting there; I did squeeze it down to 16 lines.

[AArdvark]

Can we see less of the 90% please?

[pinback]

This is not the music industry, this is some douchebag on Discord and Facebook saying "here, check out this album I just dropped" and it's a collection of tracks generated by clicking on a button on a website.

Is there no way I can get you to disapprove of this, even in the slightest?

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Join our dislike, Commander!

[Tdarcos]

This is not the music industry, this is some douchebag on Discord and Facebook saying "here, check out this album I just dropped" and it's a collection of tracks generated by clicking on a button on a website.

Is there no way I can get you to disapprove of this, even in the slightest?

Freedom of speech means that, sooner or later someone is going to say something you don't like. They could be proposing something that you would oppose to the core of your being, because is is wrong. But we put up with it, so that the things we do agree with, are able to be said, or in this case, played.

So you disagree with it. What difference does it make to you that he's producing music you don't like? Is it because you think that he is producing music that is not worthwhile? Is it because he's producing music that essentially requires no talent? So what? If he offers songs from his website, don't download them. If he uploads them to YouTube, don't play them. If he's actually able to get them accepted by a music streaming service, don't select them. As far as you're concerned, at this point, they don't exist. Problem solved.

My disapproval is in extremely short supply and very expensive in terms of my time. I save my disapproval for the things that I truly oppose, where they affect my core values and/or my beliefs. Example elsewhere. Do you know how many new songs are released each year? About 1.5 million. So this guy puts out perhaps a couple hundred a year, if he stays at the grueling "four a week" pace you claim he's using. and continues working on his hobby that long. Once he discovers he gets no downloads/plays/royalties from his productions, he'll get tired of it and move on. Hell, if he's having fun doing it, who cares?

You saw the effort and work involved in putting together a weekly podcast, Mr. Don Rogers. I kept pushing you to "shit or get off the pot," i.e. actually do the show or admit it's too much work. I knew it was, and it was easier to get you to discover it than try to convince you. Either he'll get tired of it or he'll put in the grueling slog of years of effort it takes to become an overnight success. In either case, he'll learn something.

[Tdarcos]

Again, not a sponsored posting.

Somebody is advertising 100 beats for $1 instead of the claimed retail price of $67. It's also claimed it's a one day only special. Obviously, it's a loss-leader to get people to discover other things they're selling at the regular price. Again, this is something anybody who uses/creates any music should check out; at this low price it's too good to pass up.
https://web.unison.audio/bsp-special

[pinback]

I still don't think Paul understands the situation.

[Tdarcos]

I still don't think Paul understands the situation.

I do understand the situation. Some guy you know boasts that he is releasing several tracks a week of alleged music that you believe will be garbage because he's using a website that produces bespoke pieces of musical sounds in what is a "cookie cutter" formulaic manner, then considers that real music. Am I missing something here?

Again, so what? He's going to release some music. He is, by your admission not part of the "record industry" so his works will not be advertised, not get airplay, unless they accept anyone will not be on any streaming service. So his work will have no effect on you and you are unlikely to ever have to hear it. If I have anything wrong, please correct me. Is he costing you money? Is he in some way interfering with your life? Otherwise, please explain why you are "clutching your pearls" about it?

[pinback]

If it wasn't the Month of Friendship, you would have made a powerful enemy here today.

[Tdarcos]

If it wasn't the Month of Friendship, you would have made a powerful enemy here today.

Why is that? Again, I am trying to understand why you have an issue with this, either what this guy is doing, or why you're unhappy that this has not strained my equanimity?

[pinback]

If someone asked ChatGPT to write them a science fiction novel, and then cut and pasted it and said "Here's my new novel!", you wouldn't have the slightest bit of issue with that. That's what you're telling us right now. That people can go around announcing stuff like they created it, when they just had a computer spit it out in 30 seconds.

[RealNC]

If someone asked ChatGPT to write them a science fiction novel, and then cut and pasted it and said "Here's my new novel!", you wouldn't have the slightest bit of issue with that. That's what you're telling us right now. That people can go around announcing stuff like they created it, when they just had a computer spit it out in 30 seconds.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Stop posting? But he's right!

[Flack]

I am going to take mercy on Paul and try to explain this to him. I will undoubtably regret it.

Paul,

Instead of music, let's pretend Pinback's friend, Mr. X, was releasing books.

Mr. X found a website that allows you to press a button and generate a random picture. Mr. X presses a button and receives a picture of tree. When he presses the button a second time, he gets a picture of a waterfall. A third press gets him a picture of a car. After pressing the button 20 times, Mr. X takes all the pictures, compiles them into a book, and says, "I made a book of artwork."

Mr. X then does this 3-5 times a week, releasing 3-5 books of "art" that has been randomly generated by a computer. He does not advertise this as computer artwork per se. He is not making a statement in regards to the state of AI art generation. The books are called "Mr. X's Art Pictures #1", #2, #3... #400...

The entire point of photography, or art, or music, is expression. Humans use it to communicate emotion, feelings, history, and stories. When a human being takes a picture of something, there is typically some greater meaning behind it other than simply capturing an image of an object. This is why people tend to paint pictures of people, and places, and interesting things, and not paint pictures of the underside of Coke cans or blank pieces of paper.

A random collection of photos generated by a computer is not an interesting art collection. It has no theme, no point, no heart, and no purpose.

A random collection of music generated by a computer is not an interesting album. It has no theme, no point, no heart, and no purpose.

I was right, I already regret spending the time to write this.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Right. I think the other thing that Tdarcos doesn't get is that the AI Music dude was taking from everyone.

"I released a new album!" he would exclaim. Oh ... okay! I / we / everyone should maybe give it a listen? There was an implied social contract that, hey, this acquaintance did something creative. Sometimes it is easy - Flack writes a new book, I devour it, it's all good. I am friends and acquaintances with many people who I care about dearly who do creative things and maybe they aren't great but I want to be encouraging or maybe they ARE great but just "not my thing." But by telling everyone you did something creative when you didn't (more on this in a second) you're imposing upon others for them to take their time and make an emotional investment in something that was just shit out by clicking on a few buttons. You're taking away from anyone who poured effort and care into a creation. We got a million things going on in our lives. Experiencing the result of someone twiddling a couple knobs and typing /imagine for a prompt isn't how I or anyone else that is sane wants to spend their time after the first few times of going "huh" at the new technology.

(* Someday, these tools are going to get so good that you can come up with a tune and hum them a melody and it will turn it into a lead guitar line, and hum a bassline and it will let you add a sampled real bass and all this other stuff and maybe things are different that way, maybe they are just a shortcut to making real what is in your head. But we aren't there and it is very obnoxious to try to pretend that AI generated anything has any artistic value at all right now, because it doesn't.)

[pinback]

I was right, I already regret spending the time to write this.

Yeah, you could have released at least four albums by now!

[AArdvark]

Now I hear there's an AI that can write code. We are all now second class citizens

[Leslie Rouse]

I still don't think Paul understands the situation.

I do understand the situation. Some guy you know boasts that he is releasing several tracks a week of alleged music that you believe will be garbage because he's using a website that produces bespoke pieces of musical sounds in what is a "cookie cutter" formulaic manner, then considers that real music. Am I missing something here?

Again, so what? He's going to release some music. He is, by your admission not part of the "record industry" so his works will not be advertised, not get airplay, unless they accept anyone will not be on any streaming service. So his work will have no effect on you and you are unlikely to ever have to hear it. If I have anything wrong, please correct me. Is he costing you money? Is he in some way interfering with your life? Otherwise, please explain why you are "clutching your pearls" about it?

It gives pinback something to do.