The purpose of this topic is making a case for guys like Terrell Davis, Rafael Palmerio, Reggie Miller or Patrick Ewing to be in their respective Hall of Fames.
I put guys in these categories. Some fit in a couple of places
Dominating but debilitating injuries
Terrell Davis, Edgar Martinez
Great individual performances, but couldn't get the ring
Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller
What the fuck is this guys problem? (bitter guys who were great)
Thurman Thomas, (Andre Reed fits here to) Barry Sanders,
Albert Belle
Hang on long enough and pray!
Tim Raines, Harold Baines, Rickey Waters, Patrick Ewing, Dave Krieg, Chris Carter, Darrel Green
Freak who did one thing better than everyone else
Edgar Martinez, Steve Tasker, Ray Guy, Dennis Rodman, Lee Smith
And a special category for Basketball, every team has someone who scores twenty points a game-
Gary Payton, Mitch Richmond, Dominique Wilkins (is he in already?) Chris Mullin, Danny Manning
I'LL START THE DEBATE IN MY NEXT MESSAGE.
Feel free to include those untalented white guys who skate around and push the puck, I don't know who is borderline for hockey and will not attempt to "stereotype" them in to non-clever categories like I did with the athlete's above.
Guys for the Hall
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msherwin
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:24 am
Guys for the Hall
Last edited by msherwin on Fri Aug 16, 2002 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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msherwin
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 8:24 am
Edgar hall
I wrote this to the Sports bar, so I didn't use profanity,
I have watched the Seattle Mariners rise from the laughing stock of baseball in the late eighties and early nineties, to one of the best run organizations in sports. Since Seattle finally started turning it around in 1995 there has been two constants, Lou Pinella, and the subject of this letter, Edgar Martinez. It is my intention to convince anyone who follows baseball, that Edgar is a Hall of Famer.
Let's start with the statistics. People will argue that Edgar Martinez is the same as Harold Baines, a one dimensional player who stuck around forever to put up good numbers. While that is the case with Baines, this is certainly not the case with Martinez. The following statistics are taken from mlb.com (which ranks all-time leaders from 1871- to the current days games). Edgar currently ranks 366th on the list of all-time games played and has nearly three hundred less at bats than Jeff Bagwell, who no one would accuse of sticking around to long.
The greatest part about Edgar's statistics is the quality of his at-bats. He currently ranks 40th all-time in batting average, 31st in slugging and 6th in on base percentage. Think about it, only 5 other people have gotten on base at a better rate than Edgar, and that group includes Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Lou Gehrig.
Martinez is also about to close in on some big numbers if he stays healthy. He should close in, or better 2000 hits, 1200 runs, 1200 runs batted in, 300 Hrs and 500 doubles. All of this would be accomplished in under 7,000 at bats and put him in the top fifty to two-hundred in this categories despite having thousands of less at-bats than the guys he trails.
Another argument against Edgar is inability to play the field and lack of speed. Well in 1992 a completely healthy Edgar managed to play a full season at third base, steal 14 bases and win a batting title. His problems with speed and defense came when he viciously tore his hamstrings in 1993 and 1994 (and again this year) robbing him of his speed and ability to effectively play the field. If Edgar ever could've ever recovered from those injuries could have easily been the best overall third baseman in baseball. As is stands from 1995-2001, Edgar averaged a .328 average, .445 OBP, 28 HRs, 100 runs, 110 rbi's, 42 doubles and 106 walks. One of the great seven year stretches in baseball history. Approaching 40 he has once again overcome injury to bat .311 and hit with power. Edgar is also one of only two right handed batters to win multiple batting titles in the last 50 years.
What sets Edgar apart from other Mariners and other players is this- In 1995 when Seattle was without Ken Griffey Jr. (due to injury in the middle of the season) and 13.5 games behind Anaheim in the A.L. West, it was Edgar who hit .356, got on base at a .479 clip and drove in 113 runs to lead Seattle to the playoffs. Seattle was on the verge of losing their franchise, their new stadium vote had failed and things were looking bleak. When Seattle came down to their final at-bat against the Yankees in the 95 divisional playoffs, it was Edgar who came up to the plate with the future of Seattle baseball riding on his bat. The Yankees were playing for a bitter old man who wanted to win with checkbook, while Seattle was playing for an entire city that lived and died with the Mariners. Edgar stroked a double, drove in two guys and saved the franchise. This was the equivalent of winning the World Series for a Mariner fan.
In six or seven years from now when Edgar's name appears on the hall of fame ballot, I hope the baseball writers remember the player who never bolted for the money, never whined about management and never complained the fences were too far. I hope they remember that Edgar stepped up to the plate with his wrecked legs and simply hit the baseball better than 99 percent of the players who ever played the game. When I see A-Rod making 25 million, Caminiti and Canseco on the juice, Steinbrenner and Selig ruining everything, and 25 bucks for a crappy seat, I wonder why I still like this game. It's because of guys like Edgar that baseball is still fun for me.
I have watched the Seattle Mariners rise from the laughing stock of baseball in the late eighties and early nineties, to one of the best run organizations in sports. Since Seattle finally started turning it around in 1995 there has been two constants, Lou Pinella, and the subject of this letter, Edgar Martinez. It is my intention to convince anyone who follows baseball, that Edgar is a Hall of Famer.
Let's start with the statistics. People will argue that Edgar Martinez is the same as Harold Baines, a one dimensional player who stuck around forever to put up good numbers. While that is the case with Baines, this is certainly not the case with Martinez. The following statistics are taken from mlb.com (which ranks all-time leaders from 1871- to the current days games). Edgar currently ranks 366th on the list of all-time games played and has nearly three hundred less at bats than Jeff Bagwell, who no one would accuse of sticking around to long.
The greatest part about Edgar's statistics is the quality of his at-bats. He currently ranks 40th all-time in batting average, 31st in slugging and 6th in on base percentage. Think about it, only 5 other people have gotten on base at a better rate than Edgar, and that group includes Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Lou Gehrig.
Martinez is also about to close in on some big numbers if he stays healthy. He should close in, or better 2000 hits, 1200 runs, 1200 runs batted in, 300 Hrs and 500 doubles. All of this would be accomplished in under 7,000 at bats and put him in the top fifty to two-hundred in this categories despite having thousands of less at-bats than the guys he trails.
Another argument against Edgar is inability to play the field and lack of speed. Well in 1992 a completely healthy Edgar managed to play a full season at third base, steal 14 bases and win a batting title. His problems with speed and defense came when he viciously tore his hamstrings in 1993 and 1994 (and again this year) robbing him of his speed and ability to effectively play the field. If Edgar ever could've ever recovered from those injuries could have easily been the best overall third baseman in baseball. As is stands from 1995-2001, Edgar averaged a .328 average, .445 OBP, 28 HRs, 100 runs, 110 rbi's, 42 doubles and 106 walks. One of the great seven year stretches in baseball history. Approaching 40 he has once again overcome injury to bat .311 and hit with power. Edgar is also one of only two right handed batters to win multiple batting titles in the last 50 years.
What sets Edgar apart from other Mariners and other players is this- In 1995 when Seattle was without Ken Griffey Jr. (due to injury in the middle of the season) and 13.5 games behind Anaheim in the A.L. West, it was Edgar who hit .356, got on base at a .479 clip and drove in 113 runs to lead Seattle to the playoffs. Seattle was on the verge of losing their franchise, their new stadium vote had failed and things were looking bleak. When Seattle came down to their final at-bat against the Yankees in the 95 divisional playoffs, it was Edgar who came up to the plate with the future of Seattle baseball riding on his bat. The Yankees were playing for a bitter old man who wanted to win with checkbook, while Seattle was playing for an entire city that lived and died with the Mariners. Edgar stroked a double, drove in two guys and saved the franchise. This was the equivalent of winning the World Series for a Mariner fan.
In six or seven years from now when Edgar's name appears on the hall of fame ballot, I hope the baseball writers remember the player who never bolted for the money, never whined about management and never complained the fences were too far. I hope they remember that Edgar stepped up to the plate with his wrecked legs and simply hit the baseball better than 99 percent of the players who ever played the game. When I see A-Rod making 25 million, Caminiti and Canseco on the juice, Steinbrenner and Selig ruining everything, and 25 bucks for a crappy seat, I wonder why I still like this game. It's because of guys like Edgar that baseball is still fun for me.