Not the Best Movies I've Ever Seen In My Life

looper · Post by **looper** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:25 pm

Well, actually, yeah, they are.

I don't think I really have a Top Ten List because as long as it's good, it's good. It's more like a Top 30 List or Something.

Who has seen Dead Man? Directed by Jim Jarmusch? with Johnny Depp? This is a crazy movie. Full of symbolism. It also stars this kinda chunky American Indian who was kidnapped as a boy and educated in England; believes that Johnny Depp is the ghost of William Blake. Contains mescaline-ingestion scene.

Then there's Ghost Dog. Same director. Very similar plotline: loner protagonist wanders around killing everyone who deserves to die. Guest appearance by chunky American Indian with now-catchphrase (from Deadman): "Stupid fucking whiteman." Good soundtrack by RZA. There is some examination of the black man's situation in today's society, and quotes from The Way of the Samurai acting as epigraphs.

Sex, Lies and Videotape. Directed by Stephen (?) Sorderbergh. This was his break-in-to Hollywood movie. With Andy McDowell doing a really decent job. James Spader doing an amazing job. I really liked the ending: similar in feeling to, say, the ends of American Beauty or Magnolia.

Rob Roy. I don't know who this was directed by but it stars Liam Neelson; Tim Roth is very good (as bad guy), as is John Hurt as the old geezer bad buy. It's kinda like The Fugitive: quick and surprising & fun to watch because of the ingenuity of the hero.

The End of Violence. Directed by Vim Venders. This one's kinda weird. Andy McDowell again and some other good people. Kinda "artsy", has some good spoken-word moments, some Jesus-esque allegory going on (in California, with migrant Mexican workers as the innocents of the world, as it were). Along the same lines as Magnolia, American Beauty, in terms of the feeling you're left with. It explores the parallels between physical violence & emotional violence, emotional emptiness, lack of awareness.

Mothman Prophecies. Here is where you can slam me if you want. Well, here is where I expect it anyway. This movie pleasantly surprised me. Lots of good acting, good use of sound and visual effects to "creep out" the viewer--ambiguity working better to scare than clearly visible gore or monsters. The director said he was exploring his feelings following the death of his father, and it shows.

OK, I'm done pooping. Getting off the pot now.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:01 pm

Geez, some of those sound pretty good. I don't think I've seena single one of them, though. If only there were something like Netflix for people like me, who hate having our accounts automatically charged each month.

OK, which one would be the first one you recommend someone go get out of that list? If I break my tasks down into managable chunks, I often have better success.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:09 pm

Magnolia.

Seriously, man. It's the greatest movie ever made, by a factor of a million.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:19 pm

i dunt seem to be able to find that on looooope's list, can someone plz help

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:36 pm

What about MY list, huh?

You put your list up, and the first thing I did was leap unto Netflix like it was a free hooker, to go get your Chasing Amy movie. Because I respect your opinion, and wanted to share that experience with you. And after having seen it, I know I'm the better for it, as is our friendship.

And now I'm telling you that Magnolia is the greatest work of art to grace this Earth in the 4 billion years its been around, and you're MEHing my fuckin' ass, in my OWN BASE.

Well, I think we all learned something today, didn't we.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:02 pm

OK, here's the deal with Magnolia:

It became a punch line to the bunch of us who enjoy the Kevin Smith flicks.

Here's a webpage which details some of that. Magnolia fans seem to get actively agitated when someone out there either didn't like it or, in this case, admits that they haven't seen it.

You know how the fanbase of Monty Python and the Holy Grail have more or less ruined the movie for everyone else? That's how Magnolia is getting.

I'm going to actively resist seeing a movie that so many people on the Internet are telling me to go see.

WITH THAT IN MIND... Obviously, Ben "Pinback" Parrish is not most people. And obviously we can say that his opinion is worth more than probably 99% of all the common net.opinions out there. Combined. So the best advertising this flick ever got was being enjoyed by BPP.

Maybe I'll see if I can find it on Usenet tonight. Will that satisfy you, my copyright-respecting friend?

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:31 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:It became a punch line to the bunch of us who enjoy the Kevin Smith flicks.

Here's a webpage which details some of that. Magnolia fans seem to get actively agitated when someone out there either didn't like it or, in this case, admits that they haven't seen it.

Well, that was a depressing-as-hell page to read. Depressing mainly because this sort of discussion is happening in the first place, and secondarliy because it's putting you off to a movie which really doesn't need to have anybody put off to it. Hell, I was put off to it for THREE YEARS because it's so goddamn LONG. You know how Kevin Smith complains that he wanted his three hours back after watching it? Well, I want those three years back.

You know how the fanbase of Monty Python and the Holy Grail have more or less ruined the movie for everyone else? That's how Magnolia is getting.

I had no idea any of this was going on. Very sad. Very very sad.

Let's try to stay above all this, can we?

I'm going to actively resist seeing a movie that so many people on the Internet are telling me to go see.

Hmm, maybe we can't.

A few other points:

1. What is Kevin Smith doing entertaining this kind of ridiculous chat-room nonsense? Fucking KEVIN SMITH baffles me, how about that?

2. P. T. Anderson is definitely a Scorcese disciple, there's no doubt about that for a second while watching his movies. (At least Boogie Nights 'n' Magnolia). Can't argue with that. Fortunately, I'm big on Martin Scorcese too.

3. I swear I had no idea this sort of thing was going on. Otherwise I wouldn't have come on here so gung-ho about the movie. That all being said, and given the fact that I very much did enjoy Chasing Amy and Clerks, and even quite a bit of Dogma:

Kevin Smith fans poo-pooing Anderson is like Outback fans poo-pooing Ruth's Chris. I mean, get fucking real, you morons. Jesus Christ.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:43 pm

pinback wrote:Well, that was a depressing-as-hell page to read. Depressing mainly because this sort of discussion is happening in the first place, and secondarliy because it's putting you off to a movie which really doesn't need to have anybody put off to it.

Okay, it should be noted that while Smith there is my favorite directory, obviously he's freaking far from the final word on flicks that I end up seeing. I mean, if there is a movie that I am not sure if I want to see, I'll go hit Ebert's page. I'm not looking for Smith's opinion anywhere.

It's just that I picked up a brainwashing vibe coming from Magnolia before you recommended it. That's very off-putting.

You know how the fanbase of Monty Python and the Holy Grail have more or less ruined the movie for everyone else? That's how Magnolia is getting.
I had no idea any of this was going on. Very sad. Very very sad.

Let's try to stay above all this, can we?

I think we can.

1. What is Kevin Smith doing entertaining this kind of ridiculous chat-room nonsense? Fucking KEVIN SMITH baffles me, how about that?

That's fine.

Kevin Smith fans poo-pooing Anderson is like Outback fans poo-pooing Ruth's Chris. I mean, get fucking real, you morons. Jesus Christ.

What? No, it's the opposite. Smith said he didn't like it, and then got hammered by Anderson & Magnolia fans. To my knowledge, your average Smith fan doesn't care about P.T. (Jesus Christ, who calls themselves P. Fucking T. in the 21st Century, anyway?). They are not involved in any of this.

Where is Ruth's Chris? Is that in Vegas? It appears that if you make this trip I will have to pay that bet off. I presume it's not in California, because if it was you'd be there every night, right?

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:45 pm

Then again, maybe Magnolia fans have a stone up their ass because people say things like this:

MAGNOLIA is the worst kind of failure, because it's such a self-conscious, insincere attempt to be "meaningful" and "important", and it fails so badly because P.T. doesn't have his heart in any of it, and it shows.

Which is maybe, maybe mind you, the most brain-dead, idiotic snippet of "film critiqueuuee" I've ever read in my life. You may find the movie rife with flaws, horribly derivative, terribly long and uninteresting and boring, and while I personally think you have your taste lodged firmly in your rectum, I can say, hey, that's art.

But anyone who can watch that movie and say that the director "didn't have his heart in any of it" just has no idea what is going on in life. Just has no idea about anything. Is just lost. Hopeless.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:49 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:I mean, if there is a movie that I am not sure if I want to see, I'll go hit Ebert's page.

Oh lord, please don't do that. Roger Ebert is my favorite film critic, but only because he's such an excellent writer. Usually, my opinion is that he wouldn't know a decent movie if he sat on it (thereby crushing it).

Didn't he give Magnolia four stars?

Shut up.

It's just that I picked up a brainwashing vibe coming from Magnolia before you recommended it. That's very off-putting.

Join us. It's bliiiiiisssssss.

What? No, it's the opposite. Smith said he didn't like it, and then got hammered by Anderson & Magnolia fans.

I was mainly responding to the last part of that page, which I subsequently replied to specifically in this thread.

Where is Ruth's Chris? Is that in Vegas?

Well, there are TWO in Vegas, in fact. But there are quite a few locations nationwide.

I presume it's not in California, because if it was you'd be there every night, right?

There are also a couple within driving distance here, but as a meal-for-one, including a steak, one side dish, and perhaps a cocktail or two will likely run me an average of $70, $80 a night, the whole "I'd be there every night" wouldn't work for me financially.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:09 pm

A fucking steak runs you $70 at Ruth's Chris?

And why the fuck is "Chris" owned by Ruth anyway? That's the worst name for a restaurant I've ever heard. It sounds like a den of white slavery.

looper · Post by **looper** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:21 pm

There was a Ruth's Chris in Houston, TX when I lived there.

I liked Magnolia a lot when I saw it. I cried like a baby at the end. Jonsey, have you ever heard any music by Aimee Mann? She does the soundtrack (well, except for some tracks by some 70s band) and it is very good. Maybe you could check that out first--if you like the music, you'll probably like the movie.

Pinback, the only part of Magnolia I didn't like was the very beginning. The prologue. I thought it was too simplistic, I guess, over the top, and it didn't go well with the rest of the movie. Your thoughts?

Also, Pinback, I've seen some of your railing against Signs. But don't you think it would make a good text adventure? Well, maybe I shouldn't be asking you. :) But, what I mean is, I thought it did a good job of creating suspense with very little. 90% of the action ocurred in the house or in the yard. So, if it were a text adventure, it would not be overly difficult or long to code, and yet it would create all this suspense! Cool!

From my list, I would recommend Sex, Lies and Videotape first. This is a relationship movie. I guess I would recommend Ghost Dog second, although I am aware that some people thought it dragged. Depends on what you like. It's got great music. It's got Forest Whitaker, if you like him. It's got overweight mobsters. It's not a mainstream action movie; its more contemplative.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:26 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:A fucking steak runs you $70 at Ruth's Chris?

No, it runs you about $30-$35. The sides and cocktails are extra.

And why the fuck is "Chris" owned by Ruth anyway?

Because it used to be Chris Steakhouse, until it was bought by Ruth, at which time it became Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. And then Ruth died last year, so it became Dead Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:35 pm

I don't know if I've ever had a $35 steak before.

We're going, right? I mean, we're definitely going. If it's within two hours of Vegas, we're fucking there.

(Roody, I think I speak for us all when I say that we gotchoo on this one, what with your status and everything. Plus, it'll be your birthday and 2) we'll be up so much thanks to the casino that it'll all be free for everyone, anyway.)

Secondly, let's congratulate looper on his successful thread. We've managed to get in healthy doses of debate, profanity, other topics and still address the topic at hand fairly well. I'm sitting in my bedroom at 1:40am on a Saturday night clapping my hands together for you, looper. Well played!

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:36 pm

looper wrote:Pinback, the only part of Magnolia I didn't like was the very beginning. The prologue. I thought it was too simplistic, I guess, over the top, and it didn't go well with the rest of the movie. Your thoughts?

I thought the beginning was outstanding, and I hate you for not liking it. You must be a Kevin Smith fan.

Also, Pinback, I've seen some of your railing against Signs. But don't you think it would make a good text adventure?

Sure. It would also make a decent movie, if Retardo Montalban wasn't directing it.

(For those of you scoring at home, I actually made myself laugh when I typed "Retardo Montalban" above. Thanks for playing Pinback: The Home Game!)

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:37 pm

I was hoping you'd recommend Sex, Lies and Videotape, as Andie there is the bomb.

Ghost Dog sounds good, but let me ask you this: is there an actual ghost in the movie? If it centers around a spoiler, feel free to take the fifth.

Roody_Yogurt · Post by **Roody_Yogurt** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:48 pm

Cool, I totally appreciate the offer, but I do have to forewarn that there's the chance that I'll be drunk enough that I insist on paying for myself.

looper · Post by **looper** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:33 am

Thanks, Jonsey. I'm a little surprised myself.

pinback wrote:
looper wrote:Pinback, the only part of Magnolia I didn't like was the very beginning. The prologue. I thought it was too simplistic, I guess, over the top, and it didn't go well with the rest of the movie. Your thoughts?
I thought the beginning was outstanding, and I hate you for not liking it. You must be a Kevin Smith fan.

Well, I did like Chasing Amy. Didn't like Dogma. Liked Mallrats the first time, not so much the second. Haven't seen Clerks.

The thing about Magnolia's prologue was that it was too obvious to me, a viewer, that there was a message being sent, and the message was: "sometimes things that appear to be accidental actually serve a greater purpose." But the situation used to illustrate the point was far-fetched (to me) or something. Maybe it wasn't effective to me because it was at the beginning and it was so short, so I didn't have much of an emotional connection with the characters involved. I dunno. But really it's just a minor quibble. The rest of the movie I had no problem with. And in general I lap that kind of stuff up.

About Ghost Dog: No, Ghost Dog is the name of Forest Whitaker's character.

Cheers,

looper

Roody_Yogurt · Post by **Roody_Yogurt** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:57 am

For me, the prologue of Magnolia (and the rest of the movie) pretty much presented the helplessness of it all more than anything. Wow, that's crazy. I started writing this post, and 'Wise Up' came up just now. I didn't feel like Magnolia was giving me any sort of 'things happen for a reason' message, just that 'life shits on everyone' and don't be an ass and ignore it.

looper · Post by **looper** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:10 am

Really? Wow. Funny how surprising it is to read a different take. :) What about the frogs? I got the impression that, say, the redhead chick, and the abusive father, and the addicted daughter, all hated themselves, right? For what they'd done. And things couldn't get better for them externally till they let things get better inside. Heh. Corny sounding. But, yeah, you can't exactly be happy while you're hating yourself. So they had to forgive themselves (and I guess that was symbolized in the movie by the frogs?).