Pinback's World O' Subs!

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Pinback's World O' Subs!

Post by pinback »

It all began with this thread in which a commitment was made to find a sub game, and to play it. Why a sub game? I don't know. I think the idea has always appealed to me because it combines so many things that I enjoy. The open water. Piloting things. Hiding from those who seek to do me harm until such time that it's possible to sneak up on them and destroy them. These are things which I definitely think define "Ben Pinback Parrish", and why the idea of a sub game had always struck my fancy. But many years had passed since I last played one, and even then I'm certain I didn't "delve too deeply". That's a sub pun! Yaaay!

Anyway, Steam had Silent Hunter IV available, and that seemed to be the latest, greatest sub sim everyone was playing, so I downloaded it and fired it up. Long story short, since then I've become a submarine FIEND, and have done little else in my spare time than play submarine games, read books -- both fictional and non -- about submarines, and cook dinner for Robb. All three of these things have been very rewarding, but since this is the thread about subs, I will only cover two of them.

And now, some mini-reviews about the various sub games and books that I have experienced in just the three short weeks since this craziness began! I will do it in chronological order of that I experienced them:

NAME: Silent Hunter IV: Wolves of the Pacific
TYPE: GAME
TIME SPENT WITH IT: Hours and hours

This was the perfect place to start. It was just what I needed to really light the spark which would eventually end up in this stupid thread. More than anything else in this list, SHIV really makes you feel like you're there. The creaking of the ship as you descend into the depths. Trying to sneak a peek through a periscope as waves crash over the lens. The satisfying sound of distant explosions and metal grinding as you hide in the depths, listening to your latest victim sink into the sea. It's what it's all about, man. Of course, when I say you feel like you're there, I guess I mean you feel like an actual sailor in wartime, put on a submarine, but without having been trained or given any sort of education about what it is you are there for or are supposed to do. Never has a 100 page manual been quite so useless. If they had replaced the entire thing with a post-it note that said "just check the internet to find out how to play", it would have been better, because then you could have saved the time it took you to realize that the only way to figure out how to play it is to look online in user forums. A shameful display on the part of the publishers, made worse by the fact that the game had a history of being notoriously buggy. Even in the latest (likely last) patch, while everything "pretty much" works, there's just enough little idiosyncrasies and weird things going on that the whole product, while overall excellent, seems a bit held together with duct tape. However, if you put the time in to figure out how to play, and overlook some of the rough edges, this is as compelling a sub game as you'll find today.

RATING: Three and a Half Stars

It was compelling enough that it actually made me want to read a book about the subject, which leads us to:

----

NAME: Take Her Deep
TYPE: BOOK
AUTHOR: Admiral I. J. Galantin

It may be the best compliment you can pay to SHIV that this book, a real-life account of the story of an American WWII sub in the Pacific, serves as a pretty decent manual to SHIV. A story more exciting than any fiction could muster, told expertly and effortlessly by the captain himself, it is the definition of "page Filippe J. Suckmonger". Mixing all the humor, boredom, jubilation and terror that must have been a part of being a submariner in WWII, the book educates as much as it titillates, and every night after reading, I would go into SHIV and try out some of the tactics that the captain of the Halibut tried in the book. My success rate increased remarkably. A flawless, wonderful book!

RATING: Four Stars

----

NAME: Shells of Fury
TYPE: GAME
TIME SPENT WITH IT: A couple hours

This is a bargain-priced WWI sub simulator, with bargain-level features. The graphics are kinda weak. The sound is pretty weak. Absolutely nothing about it will wow you. But it is the only WWI sub simulator available, so if you're interested in the topic, you get to play Shells of Fury. Take it or leave it. After reading generally bad reviews of it, though, I was surprised to find what really isn't a bad little game, as long as you're not expecting Silent Hunter-like production values. And the manual, though 1/3 the size of SHIV's, is much better. The tactical highlight of this game for me is the fact that sonar hadn't been invented, so when you're underwater, you're really hidden! It adds an interesting dynamic to the whole cat-and-mouse dynamic which sub games tend to excel at. Ah well, if it wasn't a bargain title, I'd be less forgiving, but it is, and it ain't that bad.

RATING: Two and a Half Stars

----

NAME: Final Run
TYPE: BOOK
AUTHOR: David E. Meadows

This may be the worst book of all time! My first choice for sub fiction was a poor one. Even if you can overlook the grade-school level writing, even if you can overlook the story, in which not much happens for the first 95% of the book, and even if you overlook some of the most ridiculous, over-the-top, obnoxious, dislikeable characters ever put in print, it is the sloppiest book I've ever read. And I can't overlook any of those things. But, still... I'm no history major, but I am pretty sure that 1956 was not "twenty-one years after WWII ended", as one character muses. And later in the book, a fire breaks out in the aft torpedo room of one of the subs. Wait, I mean the forward torpedo room. Wait, I mean the aft one -- the book changes which end of the sub the fire is on just about every page. It gets so bad at the end that the word "AFT" is eventually put in caps, as if the author was trying to remind himself where that damned fire was. Did anyone read this pile of shit before shoving it out the door? Inexcusable. But like I said, even if you clean up all the many, many mistakes, you'd be left with a really, REALLY bad book. Worst sub book ever! And I've read three of them already!

RATING: Zero Stars

Anxious to get that bad taste out of my mouth, but afraid that all sub fiction was this bad, I gave it one more chance:

----

NAME: Voyage of the Gray Wolves
TYPE: BOOK
AUTHOR: Steven Wilson

Whew! Five pages in, I was relieved to discover that not all subfic was as atrocious as Final Run. Here is a book about WWII subs, from the German perspective, that is written well, that has enjoyable, interesting characters with depth, and that moves along from beginning to end. Still nowhere near as riveting as the nonfiction variety, but a fine read, when you just gotta have your sub fix. And I gotta have my sub fix!!

RATING: Three Stars

But man cannot live on WWII alone. It's time to get MODERN!

----

The following three titles come bundled together:

NAME: Jane's 688(I) Hunter/Killer
TYPE: GAME

I fired this nuclear sub simulator up, played through the tutorial, and then realized that Sub Command, which it came packaged with, was its sequel, and included the 688(I), as well as two other types of subs, an updated graphics/sound.

NAME: Sub Command
TYPE: GAME

I spent about a week reading the 200+ page PDF manual for this game, before finally firing it up and trying to get through a scenario. That's when I realized that Dangerous Waters, which it came packaged with, was its sequel, and included not only these three boats, but more subs and even surface and air units.

NAME: Dangerous Waters
TYPE: GAME

I actually haven't done much with this other than fiddling around and looking at a couple of the screens. First thing I did, though, was to make sure that there wasn't any sequel to this hiding out there. Second thing I noticed was that the 688(I) sub part of the game looked/sounded identical to Sub Command, so I think this is really just Sub Command, spruced up with a couple more platforms and a wider-ranging campaign game.

It's manual is 600 pages long, and it's a long 600 pages. I can't stand reading PDFs, so I shelled out the extra $20 to get the printed manual mailed to me. Should be here in a couple days. In the meantime, here are my impressions:

This is the hardest of the hardest core sub simulation available. The various electronic doohickies seem to be modeled in excruciatingly exacting detail. You will learn things you never thought existed in the world to be learned about, just going through the tutorials.

With only functional graphics and sound, this game will not make you "feel like you're there", unless by "there" you mean a laboratory or an accounting office. Make no mistake, you will be spending most if not all your time looking at things like this:
Dangerous Waters wrote: Image
...instead of things like this:
SHIV wrote: Image
And yet, underneath all the gadgetry and blinking lights and obscure acronyms, the thrill of the chase is still there, and it is awfully satisfying when all those blinking lights come together to betray your enemy's location and you shove a torpedo up they butt, all from the safety of the silent ocean and pages and pages full of lines and numbers and weird circles and stuff. It also has the benefit of loading up in a couple seconds, as opposed to games like SHIV, which I'm still waiting for it to load. It's definitely the most comprehensive sub simulator ever made available to the public, but your affinity for it depends on how patient you are to learn it all.

RATING: Depends on how HARDCORE you are

----

But we're just getting started here at Pinback's World O' Subs! Why, a bunch of new books just showed up from Amazon in the last half hour, and surely as a result of this thread, sub simulations will once again become financially viable to develop, and the gaming landscape -- or seascape (that's another sub pun! Yaaay! <3 <3 <3) -- will be completely revolutionized!

The Golden Age of Subs begins now!!



Yaaaay!!! <3 <3
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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

This was brilliant.

Sub games exist in a unique position in gaming history. I want to love them, yet I never knew where to begin. You have created an article I would have loved to... but never knew how.


Bless you, Pinback.
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Post by AArdvark »

I guess 'The Enemy Below' didn't make the book list because it was too fictional then? A good read but far from accurate.

The problem I always had with sub games (all 3 that I actually played) was the time factor. It's either a bathtub simulation or leave the computer and come back in an hour.

Up periscope was the only game that I really played for a long time. This was on the C64, in 16 blazing colors so most of the images were imagination enhanced. The feeling of running deep and hiding while the Jap destroyers came closer at full speed still twists my guts to this day. For some reason I actually crouch closer to the desk when the depth charges are heard. I guess that's a mark of a good sub game.

Silent Service was Up Periscope with fifteen more steps to do to get what you want done. I was waiting for the moment when you fall into the game and it becomes more real but it never happened.


Red October was a video game trying to be a Sub Simulator. One week and it was gone from my machine.

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Post by pinback »

NAME: The Ice Diaries
TYPE: BOOK
AUTHOR: William R. Anderson

This book is the true story of one of, if not the coolest things that have ever happened. In 1958, Captain Anderson took Nautilus, the world's first NUCLEAR FUCKING SUBMARINE, and sailed THROUGH THE FUCKING ARCTIC OCEAN, right underneath the FUCKING NORTH POLE. Nothing ever could be as cool as that! The coolness factor of that eclipses by far the coolness of everything else that has ever happened! So, I have to give the book a positive review, just for telling this story, and for spelling all the words right and not making any truly offensive grammatical mistakes.

But what this really is, is a love letter from Anderson, to... well, seemingly to everyone who has ever existed who had anything to do with the Nautilus, submarines, the Navy, water, or anything else consisting of molecules composed of hydrogen and oxygen. His lavish buttkissing knows no bounds, and nobody escapes from its radius in this book, from President Eisenhower all the way down to the lowliest, blackest ship's cook. A sample passage which I will now make up, but which summarizes perfectly the tone of the book, goes:
After meeting with the exec in the officer's mess, we headed aft to check on the periscope repairs. While making our way there, we passed our new torpedoman, Geoffrey J. Blarghsman, who I could tell had something to say to me, but was perhaps too intimidated to voice unprovoked. "What is it, son?" "Sir, you... you have a little bit of mustard right... right there on your cheek, sir."

I will never forget his remarkable display of courage and professionalism on that day, and feel proud and honored to have served with Blarghsman, who went on to retire a three-star Admiral."
And it's all very nice, and heartfelt, and I'm sure all the people involved with Nautilus (who according to the book were the bestest, most flawless, wonderful people ever to live) will smile broadly while reading it.

But the dude sailed a FUCKING SUBMARINE underneath the FUCKING ARCTIC, for fuck's sake! Let's get to that! Let's get to the nitty gritty!! What's it like to be submerged for days on end, 400 feet below a 100-foot layer of ice!! Let me taste the fear! Let me lick up the sweat of excitement that permeated every second of the voyage!

Well, there's some of that, but you have to hunt for it in between hearing about how everything and everyone in the whole Navy is totally the best, most perfect gift from Lord Baby Jesus that has ever been.

So, you know. Great story. Okay book. It has some good pictures, too. SPOILER: Anderson dies at the end, right before the book is published.

RATING: Two and Three-Quarters Stars
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Post by AArdvark »

Did he get mauled to death by a polar bear?







THE
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Post by pinback »

NAME: Bacalao
TYPE: BOOK
AUTHOR: J.T. McDaniel

This is a fictional account of the boat "Bacalao", from its construction before the war started to the end of the war. You can tell this book was written by a sub historian, because more than any of the books I'd read previously, this one is dense with exacting descriptions of the construction and operation of a WW2 sub, down to seemingly every dial, wire, valve, pump, or tank on the thing. If you are looking for a breezy novel you can just zip through, surfing through page after page of non-stop, dumbed-down action, this is not it. If you are a sub junkie, though, and want to get as far down into the nuts and bolts as possible, give it a go.

The book takes less pains with its human protagonists, though I was pleased to note that this is the first sub novel I've read where none of the characters are ridiculously idiotic, obnoxious, 2-dimensional, or irritating. While they're basically only in the book to move the story about the subs and ships along, they all act like reasonable people and did not detract from the enjoyment of seeing how the sub was really operated.

One surprise is that, up until the rather anticlimactic finale, Bacalao -- unlike boats in lots of other sub books/movies -- actually does pretty well, despite page upon page devoted to getting across how much their torpedoes sucked. A novel approach, but one which lessens some of the dramatic tension. You keep waiting for something horrible to happen, or for them to endure an impossible counterattack by Japanese destroyers, but... in general, they just float around kicking ass (when the torpedoes work). I didn't mind this too much, as the descriptions of how they kicked ass were fascinating, and made me want to fire up SHIV again and try some of those tactics.

A fine book!

RATING: Three and a Quarter Stars
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Post by pinback »

NAME: Real Fleet Boat
TYPE: SHIV MOD
TIME SPENT WITH: A few hours

So once you really get into SHIV, you're introduced to the Modding Community. Apparently there are many many SHIV mods, done mostly by people who had earlier versions and wanted the damn thing to work right. But another group of hardcore historians set out to make mods which would make the simulation as perfectly realistic as possible, given the limits of the gaming engine.

One of the most popular "supermods" is called Reel Fleet Boat, and is a compilation of seemingly hundreds of individual mods, all coming together to transform SHIV into a completely new, and terribly realistic WWII sub simulator.

Mainly what I noticed at first was that the sun graphic was nicer. But I had two weeks of otherwise uneventful Pacific transit before anything interesting happened, so I had a lot of time to stare at the sun graphic, which is not nearly as painful -- in my experience, anyway -- as staring into the real one.

Other noticeable nods to realism were that the sounds are upgraded, the voices say things more in line with what I've read in books (see rest of thread), and other nice little touches like additional key commands and restructuring of the toolbar menus to make the game easier to operate.

I completed my mission and then set about patrolling the area, to give the new combat system a workout -- a system which was more closely supposed to reflect the actual conditions on an American WWII sub off the coast of Japan in late 1941, including raising torpedo unreliability to a realistic level. And if I've learned anything by reading books about the period, I've learned that until about 1943, the torpedoes completely blew chunks.

Anyway, in the dark of night, I get a sound reading -- a lone merchant (rare sight in these waters), bearing 290, about 4500 yards ahead. It's the middle of the night, and he has no escorts, so there's really no reason to submerge. I put engines full ahead and maneuver around for an ideal targeting situation.

SHIV offers manual targeting, which is the only "real" way to play -- figuring out firing solutions and angles is much of the bulk of the challenge of the game, and letting the computer do it all for you turns it into little more than a very slowly paced arcade game. I admit I am not the best at it yet. My first salvo of three torpedoes, set for a 10-degree spread, missed wildly ahead of the target. I had underestimated the target's height, and overestimated its speed.

With one more torpedo left in the forward hatch, I line up again, set the values to more accurate levels, and let the fish go. I switch into external viewing mode, just for the joy of seeing the torpedo draw it's perfectly angled wake through the water, right abeam the target's bridge. As it ran directly into the target's port fairwater, I braced for the joyous cacaphony of impact. And then... nothing. "Torpedo is a dud, sir!"

Alright, I guess that's realistic.

I swing about quickly to bring my two stern tubes to bear on the lucky-ass merch. A quick bearing reading and angle-on-bow estimate, and off they went!

And off they went, right past the ship. I must learn how to do that better. Nuts!

The fore torpedo tubes are still reloading, so I while away the time pummelling the ship with my deck gun. I have no real hope that the artillery will sink her, but it's satisfying nonetheless.

With tubes 1 and 2 reloaded, I swing around and prepare for another run. I won't be so careless this time.

I let the first fish go from tube 1 and switch to external mode again. This is a work of art. It streamed directly on course to hit at the exact midpoint of the ship on its starboard side. Once again I braced...

And once again... "The torpedo is a dud, sir!"

Now this is getting a little too realistic. Pissed off, I snap off #2. I'm only 300 yards from the target now, so when this one fails to explode, I'm not as pissed, since even in the stock game, you have to give the torpedoes about 500 yards to run before they arm themselves. I was desperate, though.

More artillery, while I wait for the stern tubes to reload for one last, desperate try.

They load, and I swing around, putting the Luckiest Man Alive directly astern. Now he's zigging and zagging, about 1500 yards away, so with one last burst of hate, I try to anticipate his next zig, and snap off the two stern fish, manually setting them to turn about 10 degrees left of where they were aimed, assuming he was going to turn into them.

The second fish was going to miss wildly to port, but the first one was destined for greatness. If everything held up, it was going to smack right into the port-side bow of the retreating vessel, surely enough to put down the artillery-ridden hulk.

I once again went to external view to savor the torpedo's last couple hundred yards. It was going to hit. The merch's luck couldn't hold out any longer. There it goes...

"Torpedo is a dud, sir!"

OH, FUCK REAL FLEET BOAT.

RATING: FUCK REAL FLEET BOAT
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pinner

Post by pinner »

Just to bring some weak-ass closure to this thread, much as the last few months symbolize the weak-ass closure of this BBS, let me say why World O' Subs has not continued.

It has not continued because the very best of Sub Game, Sub Book, and Sub Movie are so clear, and (with the exception of Sub Game) so completely out of reach for anyone else, that there's little point in going on. To clarify:

Silent Hunter IV, previously mentioned, is the best sub game there is. Which is not to say it is perfect, and though SHIV is splendid, what the world really needs is the next version. Silent Hunter IV can be topped. I am sure of this. Although probably nobody ever will because where's the money in it.

BUT, what cannot be topped are these:

SUB MOVIE THAT WILL NEVER BE TOPPED: Das Boot

I have seen this movie now in all three main versions: The hyper-edited one released in the theaters originally. The 3.5 hour "Director's Cut". The 5.5 hour "Uncut" version (which is the original TV miniseries in its entirety.)

Dispense with the edited-to-hell theatrical release. The Director's Cut is so, so unbelievably great, so astonishing in every single respect, that I can't believe the same director went on to make Enemy Mine and Air Force One. It's inconceivable. And Jurgen Prochnow is the greatest captain in movie history. His performance in that, among all the other fantastic stuff going on, is so pitch-perfect that you just want to find him on Facebook and give him a virtual hug.

Das Boot: The Director's Cut, is now in my prized Top Five Movies Ever. If you want to play the "how well do I know Pinback" game, you can try to list the other four.

I also watched the 5.5 hour uncut version, which is just porn for Das Boot fans, so I loved the hell out of it, but it's hard to recommend a 3.5 hour movie, much less a six hour Sub-o-thon.

There will never be a sub movie better than Das Boot. There almost can't be.

Which brings us to:

SUB BOOK THAT WILL NEVER BE TOPPED: Das Fucking Boot

Could the book really be as good as the movie? It's hard to comment on this, because part of what I want to say is that Das Boot is a beautiful piece of writing, but it's translated. So do I praise the author, or the translator? I don't know, but they teamed up to write the most vividly torturous, ghastly poetic book I've ever read. There's just this pall of horror and dread which starts on page one and escalates on every page to the point where you'd stop reading if only it wasn't so fantastic, and in a strange way, beautiful.

I don't like the book because I like the movie, and I don't like the movie because I like the book. In my view, taken alone, they are at the very top of their respective crafts. "Fight Club" isn't the right word, but it's the only one that comes to mind.

Das Boot, the book, is one of the best books I have ever read, and no sub book will ever top it.

It almost can't.

WORLD O' SUBS OUT.

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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

I'll go:

Magnolia
Das Boot
There Will Be Blood
The Godfather / The Godfather Part II
Apocalypse Now

as your top five!!! Now do mine! DO mine!
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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Post by pinner »

Magnolia, Das Boot, and Apocalypse Now are correct. You are missing two!

Yours are:

Brick, Chasing Amy, Highlander (BAAahahaha), wait now I gotta look up that old thread.

Brick, Chasing Amy, Highlander, Re-Animator, Blade Runner

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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

Sunshine has probably replaced Highlander.
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Post by pinner »

Thank _FUCK_ for that.

_There can be only five!!!_

pinner

Post by pinner »

Alright, just so we're all clear, here's the current top five, IN ORDER, so don't fuck with me:

1. Magnolia
2. 2001
3. Apocalypse Now
4. Fight Club
5. Das Boot

That's it. It'll probably stay that way until I die, so memorize it.

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Post by pinback »

pinner wrote:Silent Hunter IV, previously mentioned, is the best sub game there is. Which is not to say it is perfect, and though SHIV is splendid, what the world really needs is the next version.
YES IT DOES!
myself wrote: Alright, just so we're all clear, here's the current top five, IN ORDER, so don't fuck with me:

1. Magnolia
2. 2001
3. Apocalypse Now
4. Fight Club
5. Das Boot

That's it. It'll probably stay that way until I die, so memorize it.
There's a chance 2 and 3 could flip-flop, and there's a chance 4 and 5 could flip-flop. Just wanted to clarify.

This place is fucking dead.
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Post by ChainGangGuy »

You're fucking dead in it!

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Post by AArdvark »

It's sub games. I like them as a whole but not to the point where I'd want to play one in realtime.


prolly why they invented time compression.

Hey, wouldn't time compression in a sub game be the same thing as SPEED BURST!

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Post by Yumiko »

ChainGangGuy wrote:You're fucking dead in it!
Yumiko also sad not to do anything but please to stop from throwing the land peanuts on site.

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Post by pinback »

Strange Sub Factoid Of Day:

The survival rate for German U-Boat sailors in WWII was less than that of Kamizake pilots.
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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

H-how...? Unless.... kamizombies????

HAI!
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Post by pinback »

Not all who were recruited Kamikaze were sent on missions. Not all who were sent on missions, err, completed them.

Fact remains, if you were a gamblin' man, always bet on yellow.
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