Jolt Country

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am**

Dear Mr. Finsternis:

I write to you today in the hopes of saving you from a very serious problem which I think you need to deal with. For reasons I will make clear in this letter, I fully expect that you will not read this message. But, my sense of humanity and fair play demands I make the effort so that, in the end, if I have failed to rectify the situation, I can at least say, "I tried."

I'm not sure how to put this other than to tell the truth as i see it, and, to begin, you have, not a serious attitude problem, but a near-intolerable attitude problem. I will begin with my own experiences, which, I suspect, you will just dismiss as unimportant, or whining, or some other excuse, and decide not to bother reading this message. But, perhaps, I can give you the opportunity to "hop a mile in the other man's shoes" (since I can't walk), and maybe learn something.

In my interactions with you, you display what I can only describe as a "holier than thou," attitude, in which you express most points as "I'm right, you're wrong, and you're too stupid to even understand why." At every opportunity, you seek to belittle, denigrate and dismiss my intellect, ability to think, and to reason, as if I was "an imbecile trying and failing to be a moron."

In practically every sentence, the condescending attitude practically screams out. And when it's not condescending, the sarcasm and intolerance drips like venom off a snake's fangs. Your inability to have a rational conversation without being insulting is the type of behavior that, even where you may in fact be correct, will drive people away or make them not listen to you.

This is what happened to me, and if you could turn me off I'm sure it will happen to others. I've seen it here in at least one case, and I'm sure you know exactly whom I'm talking about. In the particular article, we were talking about my medical conditions, and you offered suggestions, but when the intolerant and dismissive attitude kept pouring out, it got to a point tha "I had had it up to my eyeballs" and didn't want to read any more.

I'm sure you have good ideas, that might be valuable. But it's like offering free samples laced with syrup of ipecac. A person might try it at first, but soon it will make them throw up and they'll never go near that again. And I fear that's where you're headed. If you continue your mean-spirited and offensive attitude toward other members of this BBS, I can guess what will happen: you will have left me in the dust, dethroning me as most disliked poster here.

Now, some (hopefully small) part of me wants to cheer you on, to keep at it, until you either become the Donald Trump of this place, nearly universally hated, or (if you left) you become the bad example, where people can say about someone, "at least he wasn't bad as Finsternis." But because I think you are salvageable, and could become a valued member of this board, I want to offer my help.

I don't know what has happened to you. Molested as a child, raised by a religious zealot aunt, mistreated by your parents, I don't care. Notwithstanding whatever trauma or problems you grew up with, you really need to stop lashing out at other people. Being insulting, rude, condescending, and miserable will not enamor you to other people, and, when someone compliments you, insulting or belittling them is not the way to go.

You proposed to tell me things so I would not die an untimely death. Let me offer you advice so you don't kill your reputation. But maybe you vehemently disagree. Okay, let's say you think you're not doing these things. Fine, I'm wrong, keep doing whatever you're doing and watch as your influence here wanes until you're effectively ignored. And the situation is worse than if someone else is "poisoning the well" and damaging you: you dumped the poison in the water yourself.

I hope you take these words to heart, as one rational person to anothe, and accept them in the spirit to which they have been given. I do not dislike you, I bear you no ill will, and as I have said, I hope to have other discussions with you on interesting topics. But you have to stop copping an attitude and treat people as equals, as if they were something other than worthless.

Earlier, I think I (indirectly) said I thought you were a friend, but now I realize that's not the case. I'd like to see you improve how you deal with others so I may be able to say that at some point.

Sincerely,
Paul "Tansin A. Darcos" Robinson

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:44 am**

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amdethroning me as most disliked poster here.

You are one of the most liked posters here. You've won the MVP two different years, including the most recent one, that's twice as many as Flack and AArdvark. You are the Soul of Jolt Country, a key figure, a central attraction.

But as far as Finsternis, you hit the nail on the head, he's a one trick pony and what you identified is his one and only trick so good luck getting him to change.

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:19 pm**

Billy Mays wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:44 am You are the Soul of Jolt Country, a key figure, a central attraction.

Yeah, because "at least I'm not as bad as Finsternis"!

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:39 pm**

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am Dear Mr. Finsternis:

I write to you today in the hopes of saving you from a very serious problem which I think you need to deal with. For reasons I will make clear in this letter, I fully expect that you will not read this message. But, my sense of humanity and fair play demands I make the effort so that, in the end, if I have failed to rectify the situation, I can at least say, "I tried."

I'm not sure how to put this other than to tell the truth as i see it, and, to begin, you have, not a serious attitude problem, but a near-intolerable attitude problem. I will begin with my own experiences, which, I suspect, you will just dismiss as unimportant, or whining, or some other excuse, and decide not to bother reading this message. But, perhaps, I can give you the opportunity to "hop a mile in the other man's shoes" (since I can't walk), and maybe learn something.

In my interactions with you, you display what I can only describe as a "holier than thou," attitude, in which you express most points as "I'm right, you're wrong, and you're too stupid to even understand why." At every opportunity, you seek to belittle, denigrate and dismiss my intellect, ability to think, and to reason, as if I was "an imbecile trying and failing to be a moron."

In practically every sentence, the condescending attitude practically screams out. And when it's not condescending, the sarcasm and intolerance drips like venom off a snake's fangs. Your inability to have a rational conversation without being insulting is the type of behavior that, even where you may in fact be correct, will drive people away or make them not listen to you.

This is what happened to me, and if you could turn me off I'm sure it will happen to others. I've seen it here in at least one case, and I'm sure you know exactly whom I'm talking about. In the particular article, we were talking about my medical conditions, and you offered suggestions, but when the intolerant and dismissive attitude kept pouring out, it got to a point tha "I had had it up to my eyeballs" and didn't want to read any more.

I'm sure you have good ideas, that might be valuable. But it's like offering free samples laced with syrup of ipecac. A person might try it at first, but soon it will make them throw up and they'll never go near that again. And I fear that's where you're headed. If you continue your mean-spirited and offensive attitude toward other members of this BBS, I can guess what will happen: you will have left me in the dust, dethroning me as most disliked poster here.

Now, some (hopefully small) part of me wants to cheer you on, to keep at it, until you either become the Donald Trump of this place, nearly universally hated, or (if you left) you become the bad example, where people can say about someone, "at least he wasn't bad as Finsternis." But because I think you are salvageable, and could become a valued member of this board, I want to offer my help.

I don't know what has happened to you. Molested as a child, raised by a religious zealot aunt, mistreated by your parents, I don't care. Notwithstanding whatever trauma or problems you grew up with, you really need to stop lashing out at other people. Being insulting, rude, condescending, and miserable will not enamor you to other people, and, when someone compliments you, insulting or belittling them is not the way to go.

You proposed to tell me things so I would not die an untimely death. Let me offer you advice so you don't kill your reputation. But maybe you vehemently disagree. Okay, let's say you think you're not doing these things. Fine, I'm wrong, keep doing whatever you're doing and watch as your influence here wanes until you're effectively ignored. And the situation is worse than if someone else is "poisoning the well" and damaging you: you dumped the poison in the water yourself.

I hope you take these words to heart, as one rational person to anothe, and accept them in the spirit to which they have been given. I do not dislike you, I bear you no ill will, and as I have said, I hope to have other discussions with you on interesting topics. But you have to stop copping an attitude and treat people as equals, as if they were something other than worthless.

Earlier, I think I (indirectly) said I thought you were a friend, but now I realize that's not the case. I'd like to see you improve how you deal with others so I may be able to say that at some point.

Sincerely,
Paul "Tansin A. Darcos" Robinson

This is why we ran him off last time. Now it's a different time and a different world.

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:40 pm**

Tdarcos + Finn = Bulliton Board Armageddon

Posted: **Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:59 pm**

Paul, I think you spoke for all of us with that message. I totally agree that Finsternis could be a worthy poster here if he treated people better and didn't try to deliberately sabotage threads. You've been very patient with him but as a result have sadly been treated the worst. If we could only get the Finsternis from day 1 or day 2 of the comeback to return, that would be a big improvement.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am**

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am you have, not a serious attitude problem, but a near-intolerable attitude problem.

Funny, I feel the same way about you!

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou express most points as "I'm right, you're wrong

Yes, I do do that when I'm right and you're wrong. If I'm right more often than you are, it's hardly my fault.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amand you're too stupid to even understand why."

Too stupid? No, I don't think stupidity is your problem. Arrogance, pride, stubbornness, yes. Inability to see things from any perspective other than your own. Making broad, categorical statements when they are completely unsupported. I may think I'm right a lot, but when I find out I'm not, I admit it. I learn from others. You don't, and possibly can't.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amIn practically every sentence, the condescending attitude practically screams out.

First, you have to understand that the way I treat you is not the way I treat everyone. You get scorn because you have proven that you don't listen, and I get impatient explaining things over and over and over to you, only to have you repeat back exactly what you said the first time. You know what's most annoying in any conversation? Someone who doesn't listen because they are busy thinking of their response instead of considering new information. I can tell that's what you do because you never, ever respond to points i made, show any sign that your thinking has changed due to flaws I found in your logic. I can't even get you to admit that things might not be the way you think, which is the most basic and fundamental thing any intelligent person must accept. It's where all scientific thinking begins. And I couldn't even convince you of that. You just keep stating your same opinion over and over. No new information penetrates your skull, it seems. You have your personal worldview and that's it. Your mind is like concrete: all mixed up and permanently set.

I tried to help you. I spent hours trying to get you to think in new ways. But you would not listen. So it gets frustrating wasting all that time. I wasted my time because I thought maybe I could reach yo. But no, it was always the same answers. And you call ME arrogant and holier-than-thou? Good LORD, man, look in the mirror! You frame every one of your opinions as fact: "THIS is the way it is AND THE ONLY WAY IT CAN POSSIBLY BE!!" And you think that is an open-minded way to make statements?

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amYour inability to have a rational conversation without being insulting is the type of behavior that, even where you may in fact be correct, will drive people away or make them not listen to you.

YOUR inability to have a rational conversation is what drives people to fury. Conversing with you is like trying to explain something to a child and all they keep saying is "Nu-UH!" over and over again. So I'll make you not listen to me? You never were listening to me!

As for "driving people away", I don't give a flying fuck. I'm not here for a popularity contest, I'm here to speak my mind. You guys can all get together and vote me "Worst. Poster. EVER." and you know what I will think? I will think "I wonder what's for dinner?" I care not one whit for your little social clique.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI've seen it here in at least one case, and I'm sure you know exactly whom I'm talking about.

I literally have no idea who or what you are talking about.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am In the particular article, we were talking about my medical conditions, and you offered suggestions, but when the intolerant and dismissive attitude kept pouring out,

It was pouring out because instead of listening you kept arguing with me about things you don't know anything about. I know one hell of a fuckton more about diabetes than you do.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amit got to a point tha "I had had it up to my eyeballs" and didn't want to read any more.

Suit yourself. Don't read it. Die as a helpless, blind, limbless fat worm alone in a hospital since you clearly have no desire for any other outcome. I thought maybe you might, but you're fighting it as hard as you can. I was hoping you'd want to try to not give up, but I've done my part. I thought maybe telling you the cold, hard truth might snap you out of it, but I see that was only optimistic wishful thinking. And your decision made me lose any respect for you. You could choose between living and Starbursts, and you chose Starbursts. It's your choice, but I don't have to respect you for it.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm sure you have good ideas, that might be valuable. But it's like offering free samples laced with syrup of ipecac

They were offered freely and without malice at first. The scorn was added when you made it clear you would not hear any opinions other than your own.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amAnd I fear that's where you're headed. If you continue your mean-spirited and offensive attitude toward other members of this BBS, I can guess what will happen: you will have left me in the dust, dethroning me as most disliked poster here.

That is neither a goal nor a warning for me. I care about it as much as I care if the pixies of Verticon V vote me "favorite human". It has no meaning to me one way or the other. I long ago gave up trying to make strangers like me.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amBut because I think you are salvageable, and could become a valued member of this board

I already am of value to this board. If no one actually values my contributions, it's not because the contributions aren't inherently valuable, it's because the denizens of the board seem to think with their emotions rather than their brains, and care more about how nicely someone treats them than whether that person is making sense or not. Again, it's not my fault if I'm the most dispassionately logical person here.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI don't know what has happened to you. Molested as a child, raised by a religious zealot aunt, mistreated by your parents, I don't care.

Oh, my childhood was idyllic! I told my shrink that I grew up in a Norman Rockwell painting, but now I have to live in a Salvador Dali painting. I won the birth lottery - I was born white, free of debilitating genetic disorders, upper middle class, in a wealthy area of a free country, I had great parents, grew up free of want in beautiful locations, had lots of friends and good teachers, got a college degree without having any loans to pay back, all that stuff. I can't complain about that! I feel lucky every day.

If I'm bitter it's only from a lifetime of disappointment after finally learning true and useful things and then learning that no one gives a shit about them. The good news is that the world could be saved. The bad news is that the world does not want to be saved. The levels of pride, apathy, selfishness, clinging to superstitions and stupid traditions, and most of all, plain old fear of change in general means no one wants to hear it. They just want to have their TV and Big Macs and not be bothered with a lot of tedious thinking or actually having to do anything. I've known this for many ears, and usually I just live with it, but every once in a while I get optimistic and think that maybe I can help with some truth and intelligence, but it's always rejected. No one listens. No one wants to listen. And most of all no one wants to have their precious beliefs threatened no matter how much good it might do them. You have your beliefs about your view of the universe, but even though you had the benefit of being guided by someone with a degree in philosophy and who is widely read on the subject, you simply refused to listen, refused to consider, refused to modify or adapt, and just kept clinging to your old belief and throwing it back.

I often think of what I call the "white bread and soda phenomenon". Over my life, many friends have said to me "I really want to lose weight and get in better shape." And I have sometimes said "Well, an easy way to start might be to not drink the sugary sodas, sugar-laden Starbucks coffee, and Wonder Bread. I did that and it really helped keep me from gaining more weight." Not in a nasty way - in a nice, helpful, supportive way. But no. People are SO invested in maintaining the status quo, of hanging on to their beliefs even when it's hurting them, they always say the same thing: "oh, no! I can't give up my morning grande latte and my afternoon Coke! And I love Wonder bread, I couldn't possibly use something else!" And that's the way the world is, writ large. It's in bad shape, and people say they want to change it, but they don't want any actual changes.

And you were acting just that way and it annoyed me because people like you are the problem. I had been hoping you could learn. I was, unsurprisingly, wrong. Now, YOU could have possibly said "Gee, Doug, you seem to know quite a lot about this topic. You have a degree in this and decades of background reading. I'm interested. Tell me more about what other people's ideas are about space and time and mind etc. I'd like to learn." And I would have been happy to tell; you, and you would have learned. But you absolutely insisted that you were completely 100% right and there could be no other possible way and that, after 3,000 years of people thinking and writing about these topics, you were smarter than all of them.

Thus you earned my scorn.

Maybe you, and the others here, could learn to be nicer yourselves. If you want good treatment, earn it. Prove to me that you folks are NOT just as moronic as everyone else in the world. Make intelligent, thoughtful responses instead of just assuming no one else can have anything insightful to say.

Also, just maybe, people might learn to have some respect for those who have a lot of knowledge in a field. I would never argue about powershell with Flack because he clearly knows way more about it than I do. I'm sure there are plenty of other topics that various board members know more about than I do, and I would listen to their greater experience with respect. Even though I explained to Flack that I had been doing extensive research on esports for a year, he thinks he knows exactly how it all works and what its future prospects are.

You think I believe I'm always right? Of course I do - and so do you. So does everyone. Can you tell me something you believe that you think you're wrong about? Of course not, because if you thought it was wrong, you would not believe it - Q.E.D. I think what you are trying to say is "Doug doesn't believe he can be wrong", which is closer to what you intend to say, though completely untrue. Of course I can be. It still happens. But it doesn't happen that often, and you know why? I have a secret: I don't talk in detail or make statements about things I don't understand. Try it sometime! If I'm talking about something I know a lot about, I will have well-supported opinions. If the people who have opposing opinions are not equally knowledgeable, and use long-disproven arguments, then I will point that out. But if the topic is something I know nothing at all about, or only the very basics, then you won't really hear a peep out of me unless it's to ask questions of the people who do, so I can learn it better. Maybe try that tactic sometime and see how much better it works: admit to yourself the things you don't know a lot about, and rather than dismissing what people who know more than you tell you abut it, maybe consider what they are saying. In short, try having some humility. And though many of you are about to say that I have no humility, it's not true - I do - when called for. I'm not humble when discussing politics because I know a lot about it. but if we were talking about, say, auto mechanics, I'd say "Umm, the gas explodes and pushes the valves and that makes the axle turn, right?" And I would admit I knew nothing about it and just listen.

I have a LOT of knowledge. In some areas it is very deep. In other areas, very shallow. If I were to go to a party attended by all the professors of a university, I could have at least a very basic conversation about all their fields, because I know at least a little bit about all of them. But I would have a very different discussion with the Philosophy professor or the Political Science professor than I would with, say, the math professor or the Art professor. The first two things I know a lot about and would feel comfortable joining the conversations and having opinions to share with them at a fairly equal level. But with the second two, I would mostly be on the outside listening, learning, maybe asking a few respectful questions, and saying "wow, I didn't know that, thanks!"

If you want, I can list the areas I know a lot about and the ones I don't, so you can know ahead of time which ones you might do best to learn from me rather than disagree, and which ones we can learn together at the same level.

And I will make you all a challenge. See, I love being proven wrong. I do. I absolutely love it. I carve it. Why? it's very simple: because if I'm proven wrong, then that means that before I had bad data and now that bad data has been corrected, so, yay! I continue on with better data. So I challenge and invite all of you to prove me wrong whenever and wherever you can.

But beware! It's not an easy challenge. When I say proven, I mean PROVEN. Not an opinion. Not subjective. Not anecdotes. I need really boring things like references, citations, data, logical arguments, and so on. And also, if I make a seemingly bold statement. it means I have thought about it - A LOT. I've worked it out carefully in my mind over years, and I have already considered the most common disagreements. You won't defeat me out of the blue. But I promise this: if you do succeed in proving me wrong, I will not only admit it but I will thank you.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou really need to stop lashing out at other people. Being insulting, rude, condescending, and miserable will not enamor you to other people

What you do not realize is that I communicate at a very high level. I spent decades learning about literature, writing styles, creative writing, rhetoric, logic, and all that stuff. When I write, I always write for my audience. If I sound mad, it's because I want to achieve that effect - sometimes when people get mad, it wakes them up and makes them think. Sometimes I do it because I'm trying to prove a point. Sometimes - say, if I'm arguing with an idiot right-winger, I might purposely be condescending because I know it will infuriate them, and they will be angry, and then the will scream, and rant, and look worse in front of everyone.

But at any rate I am not trying to enamor myself to anyone. If that happens, great. If not, no loss to me. To me you are just electrons arranged in a certain pattern on my screen, and I don't care what electrons think. I'd rather be the gadfly.

A gadfly is a person who interferes with the status quo of a society or community by posing novel, potentially upsetting questions, usually directed at authorities. [...] the term "gadfly" (Greek: μύωψ[1], mýops[2]) was used by Plato in the Apology[3] to describe Socrates' acting as an uncomfortable goad to the Athenian political scene, like a spur or biting fly arousing a sluggish horse. During his defense when on trial for his life, Socrates, according to Plato's writings, pointed out that dissent, like the gadfly, was easy to swat, but the cost to society of silencing individuals who were irritating could be very high: "If you kill a man like me, you will injure yourselves more than you will injure me" because his role was that of a gadfly, "to sting people and whip them into a fury, all in the service of truth.'"

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am Let me offer you advice so you don't kill your reputation.

You keep assuming I care about my "reputation". I don't.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI hope you take these words to heart, as one rational person to anothe, and accept them in the spirit to which they have been given. I do not dislike you, I bear you no ill will, and as I have said, I hope to have other discussions with you on interesting topics.

Because I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and because I'm a pacifist at heart, I will accept your statement as sincere. I do believe you are trying to calm things down, and I approve of that. Whatever you may think, I don't like being nasty, but I will if I have to. Perhaps I did overdo it a little on my insults. I'm just so darn good at it.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am But you have to stop copping an attitude and treat people as equals, as if they were something other than worthless.

I will continue to do what I want, and if people show they deserve to be insulted, I will. But I do try to not be the first one to cast an insult. Usually I suceed, sometimes I fail.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI'd like to see you improve how you deal with others

"Doctor, heal thyself!" Or, "First, remove the beam from your own eye..."

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:48 am**

Casual Observer wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:39 pmThis is why we ran him off last time.

No one "ran me off." I left because I got bored and other things in my life because more important than spending hours in Peyton Place. Just as I may leave again anytime the same thing happens. I do not care enough about the approval of strangers to let what they think about me change my actions one iota. Just ask my wife - it drives her crazy that I don't give a shit what people who I don't even know think about me.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:51 am**

bryanb wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:59 pm didn't try to deliberately sabotage threads.

I have never tried to deliberately "sabotage" a thread (whatever that means).

bryanb wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:59 pmIf we could only get the Finsternis from day 1 or day 2 of the comeback to return, that would be a big improvement.

Finsternis of Day 1 and 2 was driven insane by TDR's insistence that he knew more about philosophy than 3,000 years of philosophers.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:13 am**

As for "driving people away", I don't give a flying fuck. I'm not here for a popularity contest, I'm here to speak my mind. You guys can all get together and vote me "Worst. Poster. EVER." and you know what I will think? I will think "I wonder what's for dinner?"

that's not fair that's never more than two seconds from your mind

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:15 pm**

Tdarcos wrote:I hope you take these words to heart, as one rational person to anothe, and accept them in the spirit to which they have been given.

Tdarcos Is An Awful Person wrote:If he's the stupid physical type, he'll find where she lives, go over to her place, then beat the shit out of her and/or rape her.

Paul Why The Fuck Would You Type This Robinson wrote: If he's the smart type, he finds where she lives and offers her a choice: agree to sleep with him or he'll file a complaint and will have them prosecute.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:40 pm**

RetroRomper wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:15 pm
Tdarcos wrote:I hope you take these words to heart, as one rational person to anothe, and accept them in the spirit to which they have been given.

Tdarcos Is An Awful Person wrote:If he's the stupid physical type, he'll find where she lives, go over to her place, then beat the shit out of her and/or rape her.

And because he's the stupid type, he'll go to jail.

RetroRomper wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:15 pm
Paul Why The Fuck Would You Type This Robinson wrote: If he's the smart type, he finds where she lives and offers her a choice: agree to sleep with him or he'll file a complaint and will have them prosecute.

Because he was referred to as a rude person in the story. So rude, this - really stupid - woman kicked him in the nuts, to which he's lying in pain, holding his stomach. For mere words, did she walk out of the restaurant, or slap him on the face, and walk out? No, she hits him below the belt in an unjustified and unjustifiable assault which, since the writer mentioned it happened in Maryland, the assault is punishable by up to ten years in prison. (Search here sucks, I can't find the original story, when looking I stumbled upon a different story by Aardvark.)

This woman does an abysmally stupid act, so he's going to be rude and blackmail - yes in this case it is - her into having sex with him. Now, if she tried to contact the police and report it, what can she say? Admit she committed a felony when nobody was around to hear his demand which if confronted he'll deny, or refuse to say anything? Anything she could say would either incriminate her, or make her look like a guilty person playing the "blame the victim" game.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:30 pm**

td summary wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:13 am that's not fair that's never more than two seconds from your mind

Untrue. I do Intermittent Fasting so in fact I only eat one meal a day.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:24 am**

Finsternis's one meal a day:

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:32 am**

This is about the third or fourth time I have tried to write a response, and my message gets eaten or disappeared. I'm not sure why.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou have, not a serious attitude problem, but a near-intolerable attitude problem.
Funny, I feel the same way about you!

Hmm, deflection and projection in the same sentence. Getting off to a big - but predictable - start, I see. I don't have a problem talking to other people, while you do.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou express most points as "I'm right, you're wrong
Yes, I do do that when I'm right and you're wrong.

So you claim. Neither proven nor supported by evidence, but it is what you claim.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am If I'm right more often than you are, it's hardly my fault.

If it was true - something I will neither agree nor disagree with - No, it isn't, but condescension and arrogance are.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amand you're too stupid to even understand why."
Too stupid? No, I don't think stupidity is your problem.

You've accused me of being stupid.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amArrogance, pride, stubbornness, yes.

Look who's talking. Take a look in the mirror sometime, although you probably suffer from wilful blindness to notice your imperfections. Let alone your faults.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amInability to see things from any perspective other than your own. Making broad, categorical statements when they are completely unsupported.

I see you're back to deflectiuon again. Have you considered a job as a hockey net? Not as a goalie, as a net, because you're very good at deflection.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am I may think I'mright a lot, but when I find out I'm not, I admit it.

I don't believe this, based on your performance so far.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am I learn from others. You don't, and possibly can't.

I find the former sentence incredible, and the latter inaccurate. I learn from others all the time. I have learned that you're not very good at analyzing people.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amIn practically every sentence, the condescending attitude practically screams out.
First, you have to understand that the way I treat you is not the way I treat everyone.

Oh, it's so nice to hear I've been granted the privilege of being treated like shit.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou get scorn because you have proven that you don't listen, and I get impatient explaining things over and over and over to you, only to have you repeat back exactly what you said the first time.

So you claim. But, conceding for a moment that it could be true, do you think someone is going to listen to you if you're insulting to them? And if you're not interested in communicating with people here, why are you here?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou know what's most annoying in any conversation? Someone who doesn't listen because they are busy thinking of their response instead of considering new information.

Speak for yourself. I do read what you write. And I do consider it, to the extent you're not trying to make yourself look like some god from olympus, slumming with the lowly peons. Or worse.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI can tell that's what you do because you never, ever respond to points i made, show any sign that your thinking has changed due to flaws I found in your logic.

Presuming you did. Flaws, in your opinion. I did not see where there was any real-world evidence to support your allegations. In one thread, I made a comment about society, in which, you dismissed it as stupid and "provably wrong." I separated that "provably wrong" statement in its own thread so you could explain to me what my errors were. I got nothing but silence from you. Therefore I have to presume you're "all hat and no cattle," you can talk a big game but when confronted you can't back up what you say.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI can't even get you to admit that things might not be the way you think, which is the most basic and fundamental thing any intelligent person must accept.

Which I did, and of course, you never read, so you didn't notice.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am It's where all scientific thinking begins. And I couldn't even convince you of that.

I just said that I had.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou just keep stating your same opinion over and over. No new information penetrates your skull, it seems. You have your personal worldview and that's it. Your mind is like concrete: all mixed up and permanently set.

Speak for yourself, Mr. Transit Mix. You're the one who tends to be rigid and dense. See, I do read your messages. The inverse cannot be said of you.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI tried to help you. I spent hours trying to get you to think in new ways. But you would not listen. So it gets frustrating wasting all that time. I wasted my time because I thought maybe I could reach yo. But no, it was always the same answers. And you call ME arrogant and holier-than-thou? Good LORD, man, look in the mirror!

You first.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou frame every one of your opinions as fact: "THIS is the way it is AND THE ONLY WAY IT CAN POSSIBLY BE!!" And you think that is an open-minded way to make statements?

I haven't seen much open-mindedness on your part, Nor ability to empathize.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amYour inability to have a rational conversation without being insulting is the type of behavior that, even where you may in fact be correct, will drive people away or make them not listen to you.
YOUR inability to have a rational conversation is what drives people to fury.

I doubt that, Everyone on this board talks to me, and nobody has to cop a sarcastic, miserable and misanthropic attitude.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amConversing with you is like trying to explain something to a child and all they keep saying is "Nu-UH!" over and over again So I'll make you not listen to me? You never were listening to me!.

As I said, you're treating people here like you think they are children, who have to be lectured to. And I did listen to you. Up to the point where your insulting condescension got to be too much and I said, i've had enough. A man with self respect will not take belittling for long, and I decided I would no longer do so.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
As for "driving people away", I don't give a flying fuck.

Fine. What do you plan to do when nobody reads what you have to say and you have zero influence?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI'm not here for a popularity contest,

Nobody expects you to be.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI'm here to speak my mind.

Great! Wonderful! We'd love to hear from you. As long as you're civil and can treat others as adults, people will listen to you. When you exhibit antisocial traits, don't be surprised when you are ignored or nobody cares what you say. Presumably that means you'd want people to pay attention to you. But you're not going to get that by belittling them.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou guys can all get together and vote me "Worst. Poster. EVER." and you know what I will think? I will think "I wonder what's for dinner?" I care not one whit for your little social clique.

If you don't, then why are you even here? If you're not here to potentially change minds and move opinions, why be here?

A rabid suppoprter of the Ku Klux Klan is not going to post to a board related to Black Lives Matter; even he knows his efforts would be better placed elsewhere.

But again, if you're not interested in changing people's minds here, then why are you here?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI've seen it here in at least one case, and I'm sure you know exactly whom I'm talking about.
I literally have no idea who or what you are talking about.

Your fight with Billy Mays. I'm not going to get involved, there was probably enough blame on both sides, but if you are as smart as you claim you are, perhaps you could have handled it better.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am In the particular article, we were talking about my medical conditions, and you offered suggestions, but when the intolerant and dismissive attitude kept pouring out,
It was pouring out because instead of listening you kept arguing with me about things you don't know anything about. I know one hell of a fuckton more about diabetes than you do.

Perhaps. But have you ever heard the term "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?" I can add it applies to diabetics too. Did you ever consider that attitudes attract their equivalent? By being rude and acting out, you then encourage others to respond in kind. Nobody "wins" an argument.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amit got to a point tha "I had had it up to my eyeballs" and didn't want to read any more.
Suit yourself. Don't read it. Die as a helpless, blind, limbless fat worm alone in a hospital since you clearly have no desire for any other outcome.

Do you really think that if I slavishly followed all your recommendations it would change this very much? To the extent I read what you said, some of your points made sense. Others were not possible, for reasons I would have been happy to explain that, notwithstanding your suggestions, some of my problems are not within my control. And maybe you could have shown me where I was wrong and what I could do about it in that case. But you were "so interested in making your next insult you had no interest in listening and talking to me."

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI thought maybe you might, but you're fighting it as hard as you can. I was hoping you'd want to try to not give up, but I've done my part.

No, you didn't. Nobody would proceed to denigrate and berate someone and expect them to take them seriously. If the tables were turned I sure you would not like it if some self-professed "expert" proceed to lecture you that you're a child and he knows everything, and if you disagree you're stupid.

You could be giving away the secret to immortality and eternal youth, but you'd never get much interest with that kind of sales pitch!

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI thought maybe telling you the cold, hard truth might snap you out of it, but I see that was only optimistic wishful thinking.

And my attempt to get you to see your attempts at communicating to "our little clique" were so grating you were becoming irrelevant was only optimistic, wishful thinking. You claim you don't care what others think, while at the same time, posting messages, presumably to change people's opinions. Cognitive dissonance much?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd your decision made me lose any respect for you. You could choose between living and Starbursts, and you chose Starbursts.

How do I choose living and Starburst? You said I'd have to eliminate all sugar-based candy. Since taffy is boiled sugar, I find that doubtful.

But what I decided, was to continue living and have some Starburst from time-to-time, in which I (potentially) have a reduced lifespan and live happier, versus a (presumably) longer lifespan with all the value removed, which has nothing to make me want to live.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIt's your choice, but I don't have to respect you for it.

The same can be said about your self-defeating attitude.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm sure you have good ideas, that might be valuable. But it's like offering free samples laced with syrup of ipecac
They were offered freely and without malice at first.`

"At first." Exactly. For some reason of your own you became unable to stick to facts and logic - if that was your intent, which I doubt - and chose to lower yourself to malice, which then turns others off.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amThe scorn was added when you made it clear you would not hear any opinions other than your own.

And neither would you.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amAnd I fear that's where you're headed. If you continue your mean-spirited and offensive attitude toward other members of this BBS, I can guess what will happen: you will have left me in the dust, dethroning me as most disliked poster here.
That is neither a goal nor a warning for me. I care about it as much as I care if the pixies of Verticon V vote me "favorite human". It has no meaning to me one way or the other. I long ago gave up trying to make strangers like me.

Fine, then when everyone either ignores you or tells you to fuck off/get lost, you'll have done a great service to humanity by spreading your ideas, and allowed you to explain what you think. Oh yeah, you can't, because you'll have poisoned the well so badly that you can't reach anyone.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amBut because I think you are salvageable, and could become a valued member of this board
I already am of value to this board.

Not from where I'm sitting, err, I mean lying, you aren't.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf no one actually values my contributions, it's not because the contributions aren't inherently valuable, it's because the denizens of the board seem to think with their emotions rather than their brains, and care more about how nicely someone treats them than whether that person is making sense or not.

Do you really think insulting people is a logical or reasonable method of getting people to hear your ideas? Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, simply explaining your ideas without editorializing or engaging in personal attacks might allow you to get more people to listen to you, and thus perhaps expose your ideas more broadly? You seem to think with your emotions a lot.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAgain, it's not my fault if I'm the most dispassionately logical person here.

That's not what you're doing, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. You were insulting, which is based on a passionate emotional response. As you noted, you added scorn to your responses. Is scorn a dispassionate, logical response, or the inverse, a passionate, emotional response? There is nothing wrong with being passionate about one's ideas, but try to use the right passions.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI don't know what has happened to you. (edited for brevity)
Oh, my childhood was idyllic! (edited for brevity) I feel lucky every day.

Your attitude implies otherwise.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf I'm bitter it's only from a lifetime of disappointment after finally learning true and useful things and then learning that no one gives a shit about them. The good news is that the world could be saved. The bad news is that the world does not want to be saved.

To quote a line from my book, "It took you this long to find that out? You're not as bright as I thought you were."

Of course the world does not want to be saved! For a lot of people, the world is fine as it is and fear change. (If you saw The Matrix, Morpheus explaining The Matrix is spot on about even our world: "You look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still part of that system,.. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready... and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.")

If the lifespan (quality of life, conveniences, etc.) of the people you want to reach is threatened by change, they're not going to like it. Doubly so if their livelihood might be reduced or they'd require retraining to go into new employment. There is tremendous inertia and the way you solve that is to work together with others to try to change things, usually a little at a time. Sometimes there is a significant event and things can change rapidly.

For years, I had been saying that telecommuting makes sense for a lot of people and even more sense for their employer. Having knowledge workers work from home means smaller offices because you need fewer people there, you don't have the overhead of all those people present, and even the parking lot can be smaller. With what the company saves, it could pay for the employee's $50 a month Internet bill to connect to their VPN. And the employee saves commuting costs.

But this took control and power away from management, who can't micromanage people who are not there. It takes smarter managers to handle the new paradigm of near-total teleworkers as employees in companies that handle everything by phone / mail / Internet and work on a computer. For most companies, they couldn't see the reason to operate that way or thought they could not.

Then Covid-19 hit and these businesses who couldn't do it before made it work. I suspect a lot of companies will continue more telework when they can. Plus the fact, it's a big fringe benefit for companies in "soul destroying enterprises" like banks and insurance companies who have trouble hiring people (except by paying a premium).

When the environment changes, sometimes you can make huge gains. The rest of the time it's a dull slog where you have to fight inertia, and maybe you get some minor victories.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amThe levels of pride, apathy, selfishness, clinging to superstitions and stupid traditions, and most of all, plain old fear of change in general means no one wants to hear it.

You're preaching to the quoir here. I think there was a quote somewhere how young people are disrespectful to elders, rude, not concerned about their future, too interested in themselves and so on. The quote came from around the 2nd C. BCE.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
They just want to have their TV and Big Macs and not be bothered with a lot of tedious thinking or actually having to do anything.

"What's in it for me?" Answer that, and you have a chance to reach them.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
I've known this for many ears,

Oh this, I have to hear about!

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
and usually I just live with it, but every once in a while I get optimistic and think that maybe I can help with some truth and intelligence, but it's always rejected. No one listens. No one wants to listen. And most of all no one wants to have their precious beliefs threatened no matter how much good it might do them.

Well, first thing you might do is figure out how to say things to people in a clear and non-judgmental way. And know your audience, how does what you're proposing benefit them? Presumably you would know this, but you still have to face up to the fact that change is slow, and there are setbacks. From the end of the Civil War until the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, it took over 80 years to get full civil rights for blacks. And even at that, there are still problems.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou have your beliefs about your view of the universe, but even though you had the benefit of being guided by someone with a degree in philosophy and who is widely read on the subject, you simply refused to listen, refused to consider, refused to modify or adapt, and just kept clinging to your old belief and throwing it back.

Well, if you're going to express a condescending and sarcastic attitude, expect your points to be ignored. You wouldn't like it if it was done to you.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI often think of what I call the "white bread and soda phenomenon". (deleteds) But no. People are SO invested in maintaining the status quo ... "oh, no! I can't give up... and ...And ... I couldn't possibly use something else!" And that's the way the world is, writ large. It's in bad shape, and people say they want to change it, but they don't want any actual changes.

In an episode of Dragnet from either the late '60s or early '70s, Sgt. Friday (Jack Webb) is lecturing a kid who was caught stealing in order to obtain resources for his proposed commune which would change things for the better. Friday talks to him about how we've gotten so used to 'instant everything'; turn on a TV, instant entertainment; Dial 7 digits, instant communication; and so on. (And back then they didn't even have the Internet, personal computers, or microwave ovens!) But real change requires a long, slow slog to convince the hearts and minds of people, and things don't always work, and you get older, and then you have kids of your own, and they want to see things change, and they're impatient, and question your interest in making things better.

When a change is needed, if it's a big change, you need to propose gradual changes over some reasonable timetable. Expecting an 'all or nothing' approach is going to make you disappointed. Also, as i have said before, you never really 'convince' people; you get them to convince themselves.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd you were acting just that way and it annoyed me because people like you are the problem. I had been hoping you could learn. I was, unsurprisingly, wrong.

Well, you need to stop allowing your passions to steer you into taking the wrong tack.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amNow, YOU could have possibly said "Gee, Doug, you seem to know quite a lot about this topic.

Well, I couldn't have done that, I didn't know what your real name is. And there is a more important reason.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou have a degree in this and decades of background reading. I'm interested. Tell me more about what other people's ideas are about space and time and mind etc. I'd like to learn."

But you didn't say that, you just proceeded to say things ex cathedra, as if handed down on high like the Mt. Sinai tablets. And you apparently got upset because your pronouncements weren't taken as the gospel you claimed it was.

Finstrnis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd I would have been happy to tell; you, and you would have learned. But you absolutely insisted that you were completely 100% right and there could be no other possible way and that, after 3,000 years of people thinking and writing about these topics, you were smarter than all of them.

And here you go, making pronouncements which are pure speculation and more of the same "I'm better than you" attitude. Maybe if you tried to use your passions to work in positive ways. How can you make it more relatable to the other person? Why should they be interested? How can they benefit? How can you offer them "baby steps" to make small changes to work toward the eventual goal?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amThus you earned my scorn.

Thus you showed you lack both the patience to discuss things and possibly the knowledge to properly make the argument. Try focusing your passions towards something that isn't self-savaging.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amMaybe you, and the others here, could learn to be nicer yourselves. If you want good treatment, earn it.

Uh, doesn't work that way. You are the new entrant, you are the one who needs to earn respect. When a teacher starts a new class, he treats them positively and in return he earns their respect. He is not entitled to it simply because knows more than them, he shows he deserves it by actions and words.

Here, all we have are words. Use them properly and they will serve you well. Misuse them and no one will listen.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amProve to me that you folks are NOT just as moronic as everyone else in the world. Make intelligent, thoughtful responses instead of just assuming no one else can have anything insightful to say.

Well, you've been unable to do the same. You allowed your emotions to get the better of you. "You have failed to reach Kohlinahr."

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAlso, just maybe, people might learn to have some respect for those who have a lot of knowledge in a field.

Show, don't tell.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amEven though I explained to Flack that I had been doing extensive research on esports for a year, he thinks he knows exactly how it all works and what its future prospects are.

But, there's one thing to remember. When discussing future possibilities it's all pure opinion - perhaps educated opinion - and can be wrong. On either side. Even if you have a Phd in a subject or have learned enough to qualify for one, if it's not a hard science, even experts can be wrong. Ask ten economists their expectations for the economy and you'll get (at least) 11 different opinions.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou think I believe I'm always right? Of course I do - and so do you.

No, I don't. In order to learn things I hav to accept the possibility I could be wrong. But you're not going to change people's opinions by insulting them.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amSo does everyone. Can you tell me something you believe that you think you're wrong about? Of course not, because if you thought it was wrong, you would not believe it - Q.E.D.

And here you are wrong. There are a lot of people who know their religious beliefs are wrong but won't give them up because it would look bad to their friends. family, or community. Then there's dishonest wrong thought. Noted Atheist speaker AronRa tells how a member of the Texas State Board of Education admitted that he knew that there are transitional fossils (showing human descent from apes, including the "missing link") but would teach in his school classes that there were none, because he wanted his students to believe the lie.

A lot of people engage in self-deception. In 1984, George Orwell created the term for the belief in two simultaneously conflicting ideas: doublethink. And a lot of people do it.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 ami]I don't talk in detail or make statements about things I don't understand.[/i] If I'm talking about something I know a lot about, I will have well-supported opinions.

You still tended to present your opinions as if you were the pope and questioning them was heresy.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIn short, try having some humility.

That door swings both ways.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd though many of you are about to say that I have no humility, it's not true - I do - when called for.

Well, maybe you need to call it more often. Get an unlimited minute cell phone plan, and put Your Humility on speed-dial.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI'm not humble when discussing politics because I know a lot about it... But I would have a very different discussion with the Philosophy professor or the Political Science professor than I would with, say, the math professor or the Art professor.

Philosophy, Poli Sci and Art are soft sciences, much of what is discussed is pure opinion. Mathematics, on the other hand, is a hard science. It has rules, and some of those rules have direct effects on the world and how it operates or how to work with it in some contexts.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf you want, I can list the areas I know a lot about and the ones I don't, so you can know ahead of time which ones you might do best to learn from me rather than disagree, and which ones we can learn together at the same level.

I think that would be a nice idea. I would like that. But, if you "know" something in a "soft" science - especially where the things known are often opinion - even if it's not admitted - there can be room for disagreement. Sometimes there are intelligent people who get it wrong. Especially when the subject is theoretical. And there is a possibility I'll learn something.Or maybe we both will.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd I will make you all a challenge. See, I love being proven wrong. I do. I absolutely love it. I carve it.

So you're inte3rested in cutting discussion?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amWhy? it's very simple: because if I'm proven wrong, then that means that before I had bad data and now that bad data has been corrected, so, yay! I continue on with better data. So I challenge and invite all of you to prove me wrong whenever and wherever you can.

Well, you're going to have to tame your emotional responses and discontinue being insulting. Try. Real hard.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amBut beware! It's not an easy challenge. When I say proven, I mean PROVEN... But I promise this: if you do succeed in proving me wrong, I will not only admit it but I will thank you.

But can we expect the same from you? If you're making a claim, can you back it up? And can you do it without being insulting?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou really need to stop lashing out at other people. Being insulting, rude, condescending, and miserable will not enamor you to other people
What you do not realize is that I communicate at a very high level.

So does Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and he's able to speak very eloquently, without being condescending. Even though I know what he knows about astro physics, or astronomy, or the other hard sciences her's involved in exceeds my capacity by decades.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI spent decades learning about literature, writing styles, creative writing, rhetoric, logic, and all that stuff.

Some of your practices bring me to doubt that claim.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amWhen I write, I always write for my audience.

Some of your practices bring me to doubt that claim.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf I sound mad, it's because I want to achieve that effect - sometimes when people get mad, it wakes them up and makes them think.

If you haven't seen it, look up the quote from the movie Network where Peter Boyle says "You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it any more! My life has value!'" Paddy Chayevsky, the screenwriter, was brilliant. That's an example of mad, not of insulting. Mad is great when used correctly. Just don't let it allowe you to slide over to insulting or conmdescending.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amSometimes I do it because I'm trying to prove a point.

Try not to use it to stab someone with.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amSometimes - say, if I'm arguing with an idiot right-winger, I might purposely be condescending because I know it will infuriate them, and they will be angry, and then the will scream, and rant, and look worse in front of everyone.

Yeah, but you're clearly fucking with him, and you'ver dismissed them as someone you're not going to convince. Presumably here you have a different type of audience.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amBut at any rate I am not trying to enamor myself to anyone.

But doing so can make your attempts to communicate more effective. People listen more to people they like.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf that happens, great. If not, no loss to me.

Well, it's a complete loss to you. If you become ignored because you have a 0% Approval Rating, all of your effort here was for nothing. And I think you'd have better things to do with your time.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amTo me you are just electrons arranged in a certain pattern on my screen, and I don't care what electrons think.

And this is a common problem in on-line communities: we forget there is a real, flesh-and-blood human being on the other side of the screen, with feelings. and their own thoughts.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am I'd rather be the gadfly.

Gadflies are useful; every reporter who discovers an embarrassing fact about some government agency has followed along i that hallowed tradition. But don't turn into a wasp.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am Let me offer you advice so you don't kill your reputation.
You keep assuming I care about my "reputation". I don't.

Well, if nobody listens to you, what then?

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI hope you take these words to heart... and as I have said, I hope to have other discussions with you on interesting topics.
Because I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and because I'm a pacifist at heart, I will accept your statement as sincere. I do believe you are trying to calm things down, and I approve of that. Whatever you may think, I don't like being nasty, but I will if I have to. Perhaps I did overdo it a little on my insults. I'm just so darn good at it.

Learn to be logical and even tempered, and it will serve you well. If you're trying to be a gadfly, your objective is to irritate the person, not to make them so upset they look for the insecticide. And not to make yourself - or allow the other person to make you - angry or upset.

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am But you have to stop copping an attitude and treat people as equals, as if they were something other than worthless.

I will continue to do what I want, and if people show they deserve to be insulted, I will. But I do try to not be the first one to cast an insult. Usually I suceed, sometimes I fail.[/quote]
We all make mistakes; that's what makes us human. The big question is, can you learn from them? And I can guess your next question: Can I? I think so, although sometimes I doubt it.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI'd like to see you improve how you deal with others
"Doctor, heal thyself!" Or, "First, remove the beam from your own eye..."

I thought it was "physician, heal thyself." Remember, technically the term "doctor" means a learned person, someone with a four-year degree. Consider that there are attorneys who sue doctors for malpractice, where the lawyer himself is a doctor. Chew on that for a bit.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:37 am**

Brevity, people.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:27 am**

Tdarcos wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:32 am This is about the third or fourth time I have tried to write a response, and my message gets eaten or disappeared. I'm not sure why.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou have, not a serious attitude problem, but a near-intolerable attitude problem.
Funny, I feel the same way about you!
Hmm, deflection and projection in the same sentence. Getting off to a big - but predictable - start, I see. I don't have a problem talking to other people, while you do.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou express most points as "I'm right, you're wrong
Yes, I do do that when I'm right and you're wrong.
So you claim. Neither proven nor supported by evidence, but it is what you claim.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am If I'm right more often than you are, it's hardly my fault.
If it was true - something I will neither agree nor disagree with - No, it isn't, but condescension and arrogance are.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amand you're too stupid to even understand why."
Too stupid? No, I don't think stupidity is your problem.
You've accused me of being stupid.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amArrogance, pride, stubbornness, yes.
Look who's talking. Take a look in the mirror sometime, although you probably suffer from wilful blindness to notice your imperfections. Let alone your faults.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amInability to see things from any perspective other than your own. Making broad, categorical statements when they are completely unsupported.
I see you're back to deflectiuon again. Have you considered a job as a hockey net? Not as a goalie, as a net, because you're very good at deflection.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am I may think I'mright a lot, but when I find out I'm not, I admit it.
I don't believe this, based on your performance so far.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am I learn from others. You don't, and possibly can't.
I find the former sentence incredible, and the latter inaccurate. I learn from others all the time. I have learned that you're not very good at analyzing people.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amIn practically every sentence, the condescending attitude practically screams out.
First, you have to understand that the way I treat you is not the way I treat everyone.
Oh, it's so nice to hear I've been granted the privilege of being treated like shit.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou get scorn because you have proven that you don't listen, and I get impatient explaining things over and over and over to you, only to have you repeat back exactly what you said the first time.
So you claim. But, conceding for a moment that it could be true, do you think someone is going to listen to you if you're insulting to them? And if you're not interested in communicating with people here, why are you here?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou know what's most annoying in any conversation? Someone who doesn't listen because they are busy thinking of their response instead of considering new information.
Speak for yourself. I do read what you write. And I do consider it, to the extent you're not trying to make yourself look like some god from olympus, slumming with the lowly peons. Or worse.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI can tell that's what you do because you never, ever respond to points i made, show any sign that your thinking has changed due to flaws I found in your logic.
Presuming you did. Flaws, in your opinion. I did not see where there was any real-world evidence to support your allegations. In one thread, I made a comment about society, in which, you dismissed it as stupid and "provably wrong." I separated that "provably wrong" statement in its own thread so you could explain to me what my errors were. I got nothing but silence from you. Therefore I have to presume you're "all hat and no cattle," you can talk a big game but when confronted you can't back up what you say.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI can't even get you to admit that things might not be the way you think, which is the most basic and fundamental thing any intelligent person must accept.
Which I did, and of course, you never read, so you didn't notice.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am It's where all scientific thinking begins. And I couldn't even convince you of that.
I just said that I had.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou just keep stating your same opinion over and over. No new information penetrates your skull, it seems. You have your personal worldview and that's it. Your mind is like concrete: all mixed up and permanently set.
Speak for yourself, Mr. Transit Mix. You're the one who tends to be rigid and dense. See, I do read your messages. The inverse cannot be said of you.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI tried to help you. I spent hours trying to get you to think in new ways. But you would not listen. So it gets frustrating wasting all that time. I wasted my time because I thought maybe I could reach yo. But no, it was always the same answers. And you call ME arrogant and holier-than-thou? Good LORD, man, look in the mirror!
You first.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou frame every one of your opinions as fact: "THIS is the way it is AND THE ONLY WAY IT CAN POSSIBLY BE!!" And you think that is an open-minded way to make statements?
I haven't seen much open-mindedness on your part, Nor ability to empathize.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amYour inability to have a rational conversation without being insulting is the type of behavior that, even where you may in fact be correct, will drive people away or make them not listen to you.
YOUR inability to have a rational conversation is what drives people to fury.
I doubt that, Everyone on this board talks to me, and nobody has to cop a sarcastic, miserable and misanthropic attitude.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amConversing with you is like trying to explain something to a child and all they keep saying is "Nu-UH!" over and over again So I'll make you not listen to me? You never were listening to me!.
As I said, you're treating people here like you think they are children, who have to be lectured to. And I did listen to you. Up to the point where your insulting condescension got to be too much and I said, i've had enough. A man with self respect will not take belittling for long, and I decided I would no longer do so.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
As for "driving people away", I don't give a flying fuck.
Fine. What do you plan to do when nobody reads what you have to say and you have zero influence?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI'm not here for a popularity contest,
Nobody expects you to be.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI'm here to speak my mind.
Great! Wonderful! We'd love to hear from you. As long as you're civil and can treat others as adults, people will listen to you. When you exhibit antisocial traits, don't be surprised when you are ignored or nobody cares what you say. Presumably that means you'd want people to pay attention to you. But you're not going to get that by belittling them.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou guys can all get together and vote me "Worst. Poster. EVER." and you know what I will think? I will think "I wonder what's for dinner?" I care not one whit for your little social clique.
If you don't, then why are you even here? If you're not here to potentially change minds and move opinions, why be here?

A rabid suppoprter of the Ku Klux Klan is not going to post to a board related to Black Lives Matter; even he knows his efforts would be better placed elsewhere.

But again, if you're not interested in changing people's minds here, then why are you here?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI've seen it here in at least one case, and I'm sure you know exactly whom I'm talking about.
I literally have no idea who or what you are talking about.
Your fight with Billy Mays. I'm not going to get involved, there was probably enough blame on both sides, but if you are as smart as you claim you are, perhaps you could have handled it better.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am In the particular article, we were talking about my medical conditions, and you offered suggestions, but when the intolerant and dismissive attitude kept pouring out,
It was pouring out because instead of listening you kept arguing with me about things you don't know anything about. I know one hell of a fuckton more about diabetes than you do.
Perhaps. But have you ever heard the term "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?" I can add it applies to diabetics too. Did you ever consider that attitudes attract their equivalent? By being rude and acting out, you then encourage others to respond in kind. Nobody "wins" an argument.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amit got to a point tha "I had had it up to my eyeballs" and didn't want to read any more.
Suit yourself. Don't read it. Die as a helpless, blind, limbless fat worm alone in a hospital since you clearly have no desire for any other outcome.
Do you really think that if I slavishly followed all your recommendations it would change this very much? To the extent I read what you said, some of your points made sense. Others were not possible, for reasons I would have been happy to explain that, notwithstanding your suggestions, some of my problems are not within my control. And maybe you could have shown me where I was wrong and what I could do about it in that case. But you were "so interested in making your next insult you had no interest in listening and talking to me."
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI thought maybe you might, but you're fighting it as hard as you can. I was hoping you'd want to try to not give up, but I've done my part.
No, you didn't. Nobody would proceed to denigrate and berate someone and expect them to take them seriously. If the tables were turned I sure you would not like it if some self-professed "expert" proceed to lecture you that you're a child and he knows everything, and if you disagree you're stupid.

You could be giving away the secret to immortality and eternal youth, but you'd never get much interest with that kind of sales pitch!
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI thought maybe telling you the cold, hard truth might snap you out of it, but I see that was only optimistic wishful thinking.
And my attempt to get you to see your attempts at communicating to "our little clique" were so grating you were becoming irrelevant was only optimistic, wishful thinking. You claim you don't care what others think, while at the same time, posting messages, presumably to change people's opinions. Cognitive dissonance much?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd your decision made me lose any respect for you. You could choose between living and Starbursts, and you chose Starbursts.
How do I choose living and Starburst? You said I'd have to eliminate all sugar-based candy. Since taffy is boiled sugar, I find that doubtful.

But what I decided, was to continue living and have some Starburst from time-to-time, in which I (potentially) have a reduced lifespan and live happier, versus a (presumably) longer lifespan with all the value removed, which has nothing to make me want to live.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIt's your choice, but I don't have to respect you for it.
The same can be said about your self-defeating attitude.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm sure you have good ideas, that might be valuable. But it's like offering free samples laced with syrup of ipecac
They were offered freely and without malice at first.`
"At first." Exactly. For some reason of your own you became unable to stick to facts and logic - if that was your intent, which I doubt - and chose to lower yourself to malice, which then turns others off.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amThe scorn was added when you made it clear you would not hear any opinions other than your own.
And neither would you.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amAnd I fear that's where you're headed. If you continue your mean-spirited and offensive attitude toward other members of this BBS, I can guess what will happen: you will have left me in the dust, dethroning me as most disliked poster here.
That is neither a goal nor a warning for me. I care about it as much as I care if the pixies of Verticon V vote me "favorite human". It has no meaning to me one way or the other. I long ago gave up trying to make strangers like me.
Fine, then when everyone either ignores you or tells you to fuck off/get lost, you'll have done a great service to humanity by spreading your ideas, and allowed you to explain what you think. Oh yeah, you can't, because you'll have poisoned the well so badly that you can't reach anyone.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amBut because I think you are salvageable, and could become a valued member of this board
I already am of value to this board.
Not from where I'm sitting, err, I mean lying, you aren't.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf no one actually values my contributions, it's not because the contributions aren't inherently valuable, it's because the denizens of the board seem to think with their emotions rather than their brains, and care more about how nicely someone treats them than whether that person is making sense or not.
Do you really think insulting people is a logical or reasonable method of getting people to hear your ideas? Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, simply explaining your ideas without editorializing or engaging in personal attacks might allow you to get more people to listen to you, and thus perhaps expose your ideas more broadly? You seem to think with your emotions a lot.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAgain, it's not my fault if I'm the most dispassionately logical person here.
That's not what you're doing, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. You were insulting, which is based on a passionate emotional response. As you noted, you added scorn to your responses. Is scorn a dispassionate, logical response, or the inverse, a passionate, emotional response? There is nothing wrong with being passionate about one's ideas, but try to use the right passions.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI don't know what has happened to you. (edited for brevity)
Oh, my childhood was idyllic! (edited for brevity) I feel lucky every day.
Your attitude implies otherwise.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf I'm bitter it's only from a lifetime of disappointment after finally learning true and useful things and then learning that no one gives a shit about them. The good news is that the world could be saved. The bad news is that the world does not want to be saved.
To quote a line from my book, "It took you this long to find that out? You're not as bright as I thought you were."

Of course the world does not want to be saved! For a lot of people, the world is fine as it is and fear change. (If you saw The Matrix, Morpheus explaining The Matrix is spot on about even our world: "You look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still part of that system,.. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready... and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.")

If the lifespan (quality of life, conveniences, etc.) of the people you want to reach is threatened by change, they're not going to like it. Doubly so if their livelihood might be reduced or they'd require retraining to go into new employment. There is tremendous inertia and the way you solve that is to work together with others to try to change things, usually a little at a time. Sometimes there is a significant event and things can change rapidly.

For years, I had been saying that telecommuting makes sense for a lot of people and even more sense for their employer. Having knowledge workers work from home means smaller offices because you need fewer people there, you don't have the overhead of all those people present, and even the parking lot can be smaller. With what the company saves, it could pay for the employee's $50 a month Internet bill to connect to their VPN. And the employee saves commuting costs.

But this took control and power away from management, who can't micromanage people who are not there. It takes smarter managers to handle the new paradigm of near-total teleworkers as employees in companies that handle everything by phone / mail / Internet and work on a computer. For most companies, they couldn't see the reason to operate that way or thought they could not.

Then Covid-19 hit and these businesses who couldn't do it before made it work. I suspect a lot of companies will continue more telework when they can. Plus the fact, it's a big fringe benefit for companies in "soul destroying enterprises" like banks and insurance companies who have trouble hiring people (except by paying a premium).

When the environment changes, sometimes you can make huge gains. The rest of the time it's a dull slog where you have to fight inertia, and maybe you get some minor victories.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amThe levels of pride, apathy, selfishness, clinging to superstitions and stupid traditions, and most of all, plain old fear of change in general means no one wants to hear it.
You're preaching to the quoir here. I think there was a quote somewhere how young people are disrespectful to elders, rude, not concerned about their future, too interested in themselves and so on. The quote came from around the 2nd C. BCE.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
They just want to have their TV and Big Macs and not be bothered with a lot of tedious thinking or actually having to do anything.
"What's in it for me?" Answer that, and you have a chance to reach them.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
I've known this for many ears,
Oh this, I have to hear about!
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
and usually I just live with it, but every once in a while I get optimistic and think that maybe I can help with some truth and intelligence, but it's always rejected. No one listens. No one wants to listen. And most of all no one wants to have their precious beliefs threatened no matter how much good it might do them.
Well, first thing you might do is figure out how to say things to people in a clear and non-judgmental way. And know your audience, how does what you're proposing benefit them? Presumably you would know this, but you still have to face up to the fact that change is slow, and there are setbacks. From the end of the Civil War until the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, it took over 80 years to get full civil rights for blacks. And even at that, there are still problems.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou have your beliefs about your view of the universe, but even though you had the benefit of being guided by someone with a degree in philosophy and who is widely read on the subject, you simply refused to listen, refused to consider, refused to modify or adapt, and just kept clinging to your old belief and throwing it back.
Well, if you're going to express a condescending and sarcastic attitude, expect your points to be ignored. You wouldn't like it if it was done to you.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI often think of what I call the "white bread and soda phenomenon". (deleteds) But no. People are SO invested in maintaining the status quo ... "oh, no! I can't give up... and ...And ... I couldn't possibly use something else!" And that's the way the world is, writ large. It's in bad shape, and people say they want to change it, but they don't want any actual changes.
In an episode of Dragnet from either the late '60s or early '70s, Sgt. Friday (Jack Webb) is lecturing a kid who was caught stealing in order to obtain resources for his proposed commune which would change things for the better. Friday talks to him about how we've gotten so used to 'instant everything'; turn on a TV, instant entertainment; Dial 7 digits, instant communication; and so on. (And back then they didn't even have the Internet, personal computers, or microwave ovens!) But real change requires a long, slow slog to convince the hearts and minds of people, and things don't always work, and you get older, and then you have kids of your own, and they want to see things change, and they're impatient, and question your interest in making things better.

When a change is needed, if it's a big change, you need to propose gradual changes over some reasonable timetable. Expecting an 'all or nothing' approach is going to make you disappointed. Also, as i have said before, you never really 'convince' people; you get them to convince themselves.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd you were acting just that way and it annoyed me because people like you are the problem. I had been hoping you could learn. I was, unsurprisingly, wrong.
Well, you need to stop allowing your passions to steer you into taking the wrong tack.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amNow, YOU could have possibly said "Gee, Doug, you seem to know quite a lot about this topic.
Well, I couldn't have done that, I didn't know what your real name is. And there is a more important reason.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou have a degree in this and decades of background reading. I'm interested. Tell me more about what other people's ideas are about space and time and mind etc. I'd like to learn."
But you didn't say that, you just proceeded to say things ex cathedra, as if handed down on high like the Mt. Sinai tablets. And you apparently got upset because your pronouncements weren't taken as the gospel you claimed it was.
Finstrnis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd I would have been happy to tell; you, and you would have learned. But you absolutely insisted that you were completely 100% right and there could be no other possible way and that, after 3,000 years of people thinking and writing about these topics, you were smarter than all of them.
And here you go, making pronouncements which are pure speculation and more of the same "I'm better than you" attitude. Maybe if you tried to use your passions to work in positive ways. How can you make it more relatable to the other person? Why should they be interested? How can they benefit? How can you offer them "baby steps" to make small changes to work toward the eventual goal?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amThus you earned my scorn.
Thus you showed you lack both the patience to discuss things and possibly the knowledge to properly make the argument. Try focusing your passions towards something that isn't self-savaging.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amMaybe you, and the others here, could learn to be nicer yourselves. If you want good treatment, earn it.
Uh, doesn't work that way. You are the new entrant, you are the one who needs to earn respect. When a teacher starts a new class, he treats them positively and in return he earns their respect. He is not entitled to it simply because knows more than them, he shows he deserves it by actions and words.

Here, all we have are words. Use them properly and they will serve you well. Misuse them and no one will listen.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amProve to me that you folks are NOT just as moronic as everyone else in the world. Make intelligent, thoughtful responses instead of just assuming no one else can have anything insightful to say.
Well, you've been unable to do the same. You allowed your emotions to get the better of you. "You have failed to reach Kohlinahr."
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAlso, just maybe, people might learn to have some respect for those who have a lot of knowledge in a field.
Show, don't tell.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amEven though I explained to Flack that I had been doing extensive research on esports for a year, he thinks he knows exactly how it all works and what its future prospects are.
But, there's one thing to remember. When discussing future possibilities it's all pure opinion - perhaps educated opinion - and can be wrong. On either side. Even if you have a Phd in a subject or have learned enough to qualify for one, if it's not a hard science, even experts can be wrong. Ask ten economists their expectations for the economy and you'll get (at least) 11 different opinions.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amYou think I believe I'm always right? Of course I do - and so do you.
No, I don't. In order to learn things I hav to accept the possibility I could be wrong. But you're not going to change people's opinions by insulting them.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amSo does everyone. Can you tell me something you believe that you think you're wrong about? Of course not, because if you thought it was wrong, you would not believe it - Q.E.D.
And here you are wrong. There are a lot of people who know their religious beliefs are wrong but won't give them up because it would look bad to their friends. family, or community. Then there's dishonest wrong thought. Noted Atheist speaker AronRa tells how a member of the Texas State Board of Education admitted that he knew that there are transitional fossils (showing human descent from apes, including the "missing link") but would teach in his school classes that there were none, because he wanted his students to believe the lie.

A lot of people engage in self-deception. In 1984, George Orwell created the term for the belief in two simultaneously conflicting ideas: doublethink. And a lot of people do it.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 ami]I don't talk in detail or make statements about things I don't understand.[/i] If I'm talking about something I know a lot about, I will have well-supported opinions.
You still tended to present your opinions as if you were the pope and questioning them was heresy.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIn short, try having some humility.
That door swings both ways.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd though many of you are about to say that I have no humility, it's not true - I do - when called for.
Well, maybe you need to call it more often. Get an unlimited minute cell phone plan, and put Your Humility on speed-dial.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI'm not humble when discussing politics because I know a lot about it... But I would have a very different discussion with the Philosophy professor or the Political Science professor than I would with, say, the math professor or the Art professor.
Philosophy, Poli Sci and Art are soft sciences, much of what is discussed is pure opinion. Mathematics, on the other hand, is a hard science. It has rules, and some of those rules have direct effects on the world and how it operates or how to work with it in some contexts.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf you want, I can list the areas I know a lot about and the ones I don't, so you can know ahead of time which ones you might do best to learn from me rather than disagree, and which ones we can learn together at the same level.
I think that would be a nice idea. I would like that. But, if you "know" something in a "soft" science - especially where the things known are often opinion - even if it's not admitted - there can be room for disagreement. Sometimes there are intelligent people who get it wrong. Especially when the subject is theoretical. And there is a possibility I'll learn something.Or maybe we both will.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amAnd I will make you all a challenge. See, I love being proven wrong. I do. I absolutely love it. I carve it.
So you're inte3rested in cutting discussion?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amWhy? it's very simple: because if I'm proven wrong, then that means that before I had bad data and now that bad data has been corrected, so, yay! I continue on with better data. So I challenge and invite all of you to prove me wrong whenever and wherever you can.
Well, you're going to have to tame your emotional responses and discontinue being insulting. Try. Real hard.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amBut beware! It's not an easy challenge. When I say proven, I mean PROVEN... But I promise this: if you do succeed in proving me wrong, I will not only admit it but I will thank you.
But can we expect the same from you? If you're making a claim, can you back it up? And can you do it without being insulting?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amyou really need to stop lashing out at other people. Being insulting, rude, condescending, and miserable will not enamor you to other people
What you do not realize is that I communicate at a very high level.
So does Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and he's able to speak very eloquently, without being condescending. Even though I know what he knows about astro physics, or astronomy, or the other hard sciences her's involved in exceeds my capacity by decades.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amI spent decades learning about literature, writing styles, creative writing, rhetoric, logic, and all that stuff.
Some of your practices bring me to doubt that claim.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amWhen I write, I always write for my audience.
Some of your practices bring me to doubt that claim.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf I sound mad, it's because I want to achieve that effect - sometimes when people get mad, it wakes them up and makes them think.
If you haven't seen it, look up the quote from the movie Network where Peter Boyle says "You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it any more! My life has value!'" Paddy Chayevsky, the screenwriter, was brilliant. That's an example of mad, not of insulting. Mad is great when used correctly. Just don't let it allowe you to slide over to insulting or conmdescending.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amSometimes I do it because I'm trying to prove a point.
Try not to use it to stab someone with.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amSometimes - say, if I'm arguing with an idiot right-winger, I might purposely be condescending because I know it will infuriate them, and they will be angry, and then the will scream, and rant, and look worse in front of everyone.
Yeah, but you're clearly fucking with him, and you'ver dismissed them as someone you're not going to convince. Presumably here you have a different type of audience.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amBut at any rate I am not trying to enamor myself to anyone.

But doing so can make your attempts to communicate more effective. People listen more to people they like.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amIf that happens, great. If not, no loss to me.
Well, it's a complete loss to you. If you become ignored because you have a 0% Approval Rating, all of your effort here was for nothing. And I think you'd have better things to do with your time.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 amTo me you are just electrons arranged in a certain pattern on my screen, and I don't care what electrons think.
And this is a common problem in on-line communities: we forget there is a real, flesh-and-blood human being on the other side of the screen, with feelings. and their own thoughts.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am I'd rather be the gadfly.
Gadflies are useful; every reporter who discovers an embarrassing fact about some government agency has followed along i that hallowed tradition. But don't turn into a wasp.
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am Let me offer you advice so you don't kill your reputation.
You keep assuming I care about my "reputation". I don't.
Well, if nobody listens to you, what then?
Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI hope you take these words to heart... and as I have said, I hope to have other discussions with you on interesting topics.
Because I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and because I'm a pacifist at heart, I will accept your statement as sincere. I do believe you are trying to calm things down, and I approve of that. Whatever you may think, I don't like being nasty, but I will if I have to. Perhaps I did overdo it a little on my insults. I'm just so darn good at it.
Learn to be logical and even tempered, and it will serve you well. If you're trying to be a gadfly, your objective is to irritate the person, not to make them so upset they look for the insecticide. And not to make yourself - or allow the other person to make you - angry or upset.
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am But you have to stop copping an attitude and treat people as equals, as if they were something other than worthless.
I will continue to do what I want, and if people show they deserve to be insulted, I will. But I do try to not be the first one to cast an insult. Usually I suceed, sometimes I fail.

We all make mistakes; that's what makes us human. The big question is, can you learn from them? And I can guess your next question: Can I? I think so, although sometimes I doubt it.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:45 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 amI'd like to see you improve how you deal with others
"Doctor, heal thyself!" Or, "First, remove the beam from your own eye..."

I thought it was "physician, heal thyself." Remember, technically the term "doctor" means a learned person, someone with a four-year degree. Consider that there are attorneys who sue doctors for malpractice, where the lawyer himself is a doctor. Chew on that for a bit.
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____________________

Finsternis is never going to respect you or your ideas, you guys are never going to be friends, and he'll never change no matter how hard you try to reason with him or appease him. He's using you as a lolcow to create these unreadable walls of text to attack you directly and the rest of the board indirectly by torpedoing every thread with them. You should just ignore him, then he'll go away.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:31 pm**

RetroRomper wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:24 am Finsternis's one meal a day:

Ugh, are you shitting me? I'd never commit suicide by eating that many carbs. My head would explode. Do you think my name is Paul Robinson or something? He's the one who's into killing himself with that level of hyperglycemia, not me.

Nope. For me it's 1800-2300 calories a day, less than 20g of carbs. I record everything I eat in my nutrition app and it gives me exact numbers. I've gotten my average blood glucose readings down to 150 or so on average, unlike Paul, who probably requires custom glucometers that go up to 4 digits, judging by the havoc he wreaks on his body. But very soon he will go blind from diabetic retinopathy (sounds like it's starting already) so he will have to hope they don't hide the Starbursts from him. I won't be surprised when he loses more limbs and probably all feeling in his hands completely, making it really hard to type. He'll need a machine to speech-recognize his voice, with a robotic arm to shove candy into his mouth.

So in reality my meals these days usually look something like this (though the kind of meat varies a lot):

spam.jpg

KnowYourCheese.jpg

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:47 pm**

Finsternis wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:31 pm Nope. For me it's 1800-2300 calories a day, less than 20g of carbs.

Says the 400lb man.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:51 pm**

Tdarcos wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:32 am This is about the third or fourth time I have tried to write a response, and my message gets eaten or disappeared. I'm not sure why.

<twenty pages of endless blabbing deleted unread>

My guess would be "because the universe is actively trying to protect people from your mewlings."

I haven't read your post, dude. I saw how long it was, considered the thought of yet more mind-numbing tedium, constant facepalming, and eyerolling that normally attends actually reading your words, and I felt very tired. Then I realized that the reading part is not actually required! So, "I'm sorry, your five minutes is up - I'm not allowed to argue anymore." I will be a much happier person not trying to pretend you can be educated. That's ok with me, there are zillions of morons just like you - Trump fans, for example. Flat-earthers, fans of homeopathy, people like that, who are completely convinced they know better than anyone else and simply can't accept new ideas. So, into the pot with all the rest of the morons of the world you go, and good riddance! Sorry you wasted so much time writing that, it looks like to took forever.

Cheers! Good luck racing to see how fast you can kill yourself! Enjoy your existence as a blind and motionless meat-potato lying on a bed helpless for the rest of your life, with the occasional fun of having someone wipe your ass! I don't feel guilty in saying that, since you admit it's what you want. Hell, send me your address and I'll send you $25 worth of the sugariest candy I can find! Do you like Pixie Sticks, by any chance? Cotton Candy? Circus Peanuts? Since your <COUGH>"friends" have no problem with hurrying your death along, the least I can do is treat you the way they do, right? Yay! Faster death for Paul! Let's ALL help! When he does, we'll be so happy that he died with candy on his lips!

Jolt Country

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