Yay!

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Well, you can get them, but --

Well, don't get me wrong. There are several things I like about Colorado more than New York. Really there are only two things New York has, without question (IN MAH MIND) over Colorado, which is that whole pizza and wings thing. But then I feel bad, because you're right here and we never talk about the fact the economy is better, the taxes are better, the mountains are nicer, the people are friendlier and all that other stuff.

I would be in favor of trying "The Sink" for wings. Aces!!!

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I don't pretend. The city I grew up in was small, cosy, safe, with alot of big-city culture while still being inexpensive and pretty.

NO!!

It's one of the largest tourist destinations in the country and they put so much of that money right back into the town that it's incredibly well kept up

I'M NOT LISTENING!!

the schools are excellent, and they keep the downtown small and safe yet busy and lively. It's also

BLAH BLAH BLAH

surrounded by horse country and the mountains to the north, so the countryside is worthwhile, too. It really is

OOHH SAY CAN YOU SEE BY THE DAWN'S EARLY LIGHT

different because of the tourists than alot of other, less refined places in NY where some people on this board grew up.

But we can't be less refined because we're all funnier than the rest of you.

[Vitriola]

Humor is the retreat of the irreversibly déclassé.

[gsdgsd]

But then I feel bad, because you're right here and we never talk about the fact the economy is better, the taxes are better, the mountains are nicer, the people are friendlier and all that other stuff.

No-- don't feel bad. If there are things Colorado needs to work on, I NEED TO KNOW. And I'll confess there are things that are better/easier to find in Georgia than here-- European girls, wings, BBQ, people with funny accents, bad drivers.

Hopefully both Jolino's and the Sink won't turn out to suck now.

Greg

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Humor is the retreat of the irreversibly déclassé.

A FABLE

Once upon a time, they walled in, or maybe they didn't, Saratoga. So then, people like me had to cross an in-state border guard to even get there and listen to our Beethoven and Brahms over at the Saratoga Performing Arts center... wait, I mean Survivor and Journey and other bands like that who are of course the only ones who really performed there.

But anyway, the last time that trip was made, the border guard who thought I -- **I!!!** -- was riff-raff said, "Do you have anything to declare?"

I sniffed the air in order to fully condescend and stated with authority, "Only my genius."

"Oh! Oh, I say!" exclaimed the guard, as I totally got through and watched my Mozart, Bach and Strauss or maybe it was Firehouse, ZZ Top and Young MC. He didn't think humor was déclassé.

And the fetching lass from that city with whom I totally put my evil into years later didn't think that either.

A tortoise then crossed the finish line, and we all learned a little bit about ourselves, even and especially Young MC.

THE END

[chris]

I don't pretend. The city I grew up in was small, cosy, safe, with alot of big-city culture while still being inexpensive and pretty. It's one of the largest tourist destinations in the country and they put so much of that money right back into the town that it's incredibly well kept up, the schools are excellent, and they keep the downtown small and safe yet busy and lively.

I can't believe I'm being talked down to by somebody from fucking SARATOGA. The only reason anybody goes there is because of the Revolutionary War battle we won in 1777.

Oh, and for the sheepshagging.

You talk about how shitty Western NY is, yet you know nothing about Rochester except for what RobB tells ya. Like I said before, Rochester has its share of issues, but it's still a good place to live. Oh, and the school district I live in is one of the top 100 districts in the nation....and Saratoga didn't even make the list.

[Casual Observer]

You talk about how shitty Western NY is, yet you know nothing about Rochester except for what RobB tells ya. Like I said before, Rochester has its share of issues, but it's still a good place to live. Oh, and the school district I live in is one of the top 100 districts in the nation....and Saratoga didn't even make the list.

Rochester does, IN FACT, suck for many reasons:
- entirely 3/4 of the city has turned into a poverty stricken slum while all of the racist white people with real jobs have moved out to Pittsford to enjoy their high tax base supported school district. Which district are you in that is in the top 100?
- NO HIGH TECHNOLOGY JOBS AT ALL (unless you want to work for some shitty welfare biotech or optics company started by an ex Kodaker with a pension
- CLEANING ALL THE SNOW OFF YOUR FUCKING CAR EVERY GOD DAMN DAY OF THE WINTER
- Downtown Nightlife. I'm sorry, what downtown nightlife was that?
- Music Scene? nope, none of that here either.
- two words: Maggie Brooks (and the Republican legislature which does whatever it can to fuck over the city even though without Rochester there wouldn't be their beloved Pittsford)
- Fast Ferry. Of course nobody wanted to come here from Toronto. What for. . . the ghetto? lake ave?
- SLUM LORDS. The aforementioned ghetto is almost 100% owned by uncaring pricks who live in Pittsford and vote Republican. Out of the 3 apartments I've had in the last 8 years, none of them have had a landlord who gave a shit about fixing or improving anything. And I don't even live in the really bad part of town.
- Monroe County Sherrifs. What kind of pricks spend their shift driving up and down the road in Durand Eastman Park checking car registrations while people swim in polluted water WITH NO LIFEGUARDS.
- speaking of Durand Eastman Park, doesn't it suck that you can't be at the beach at night without the same Monroe County Pricks fucking with you?
- political corruption. Finally even the Republicans couldn't justify Jack Doyle (former County Executive) any longer but now we're left with expensive messes like Frontier Field and soon Renaissance Square to drain our last remaining tax base to further feed the wealthy Republican donors of the county.

On the plus side, there are lots of great Chinese restaurants here though. Oh yeah, and the parks and finger lakes are pretty nice.

I'm getting out of this hellhole as soon as I can possibly afford to do so.

[chris]

Rochester does, IN FACT, suck for many reasons:
- entirely 3/4 of the city has turned into a poverty stricken slum while all of the racist white people with real jobs have moved out to Pittsford to enjoy their high tax base supported school district. Which district are you in that is in the top 100?

West Irondequoit. As for suburban flight, that's not exactly something only happening in Rochester, now is it?

- NO HIGH TECHNOLOGY JOBS AT ALL (unless you want to work for some shitty welfare biotech or optics company started by an ex Kodaker with a pension

Well, *I* have a high tech job, and I work for a boatload of people doing a lot of high tech research. What exactly are your job qualifications?

- CLEANING ALL THE SNOW OFF YOUR FUCKING CAR EVERY GOD DAMN DAY OF THE WINTER

That's a fact of life for about, oh, HALF OF THE UNITED STATES. That's also why we have these things called "garages".

- Downtown Nightlife. I'm sorry, what downtown nightlife was that?

Can't answer that...it's been an awfully long time since I could go out at night. :(

- Music Scene? nope, none of that here either.

Water Street Music Hall? Jazz Fesival? MusicFest?

- two words: Maggie Brooks (and the Republican legislature which does whatever it can to fuck over the city even though without Rochester there wouldn't be their beloved Pittsford)

Examples please.

- Fast Ferry. Of course nobody wanted to come here from Toronto. What for. . . the ghetto? lake ave?

140,000 people rode the ferry for the 80 days it was running. The ferry sits idle NOT because of a lack of customers, but because of customs issues and delays in allowing commercial cargo. I also know for a fact that a number of Canadians came down from Toronto to see what was up (and to enjoy the favorable exchange rate).

- SLUM LORDS. The aforementioned ghetto is almost 100% owned by uncaring pricks who live in Pittsford and vote Republican. Out of the 3 apartments I've had in the last 8 years, none of them have had a landlord who gave a shit about fixing or improving anything. And I don't even live in the really bad part of town.

Thanks for reminding me that slumlords only exist in Rochester. Ya know, if you dared spend more than $200/month on an apartment, you'd probably find some nice places to live.

- Monroe County Sherrifs. What kind of pricks spend their shift driving up and down the road in Durand Eastman Park checking car registrations while people swim in polluted water WITH NO LIFEGUARDS.

Police patrols of the park are common because of the potential for trouble during the summer. That's pretty much true of anyplace where drinking and partying go on, not to mention the fact that people like to drag race down there. As for the swimming, anybody who swims on a beach where signs saying DO NOT SWIM are prominently displayed deserves to drown.

- speaking of Durand Eastman Park, doesn't it suck that you can't be at the beach at night without the same Monroe County Pricks fucking with you?

Never been a problem for me.

- political corruption. Finally even the Republicans couldn't justify Jack Doyle (former County Executive) any longer but now we're left with expensive messes like Frontier Field and soon Renaissance Square to drain our last remaining tax base to further feed the wealthy Republican donors of the county.

I'll agree that Doyle fucked up a lot of things, and that the Republicans basically control the county. However, Frontier Field is not a fuckup, and Renaissance Square is just something on paper at this point...there's no state funding for it this year. I also find it ironic that you complain about how shitty downtown is, then complain when somebody tries to do something about it.

On the plus side, there are lots of great Chinese restaurants here though. Oh yeah, and the parks and finger lakes are pretty nice.

There's lots of cultural diversity here, lots of downtown festivals, good retail (especially Wegmans), good traffic, lots of good food, good schools (at least mine), quick access to Canada, etc.

I'm getting out of this hellhole as soon as I can possibly afford to do so.

Go for it!

[Casual Observer]

West Irondequoit. As for suburban flight, that's not exactly something only happening in Rochester, now is it?

No, but in a rust belt region with stagnant overall population it causes major problems. Now, in addition to the city core being 'rotten', the first ring of older suburbs are decaying (parts of henrietta, brighton, greece, etc).

Well, *I* have a high tech job, and I work for a boatload of people doing a lot of high tech research. What exactly are your job qualifications?

I have a job in software development sales and lots of experience selling J2EE and Web Services development/testing/etc. Problem for me is that there isn't much demand here for high end technology development and i'd have to bite the bullet and sell sys admin or web design services or cars i guess.

That's a fact of life for about, oh, HALF OF THE UNITED STATES. That's also why we have these things called "garages".

Personal preference there, I've lived here 12 years after places like Seattle, Richmond, South Carolina, and Florida and will just never like the weather here.

Can't answer that...it's been an awfully long time since I could go out at night. :(

you're not missing much, i haven't bothered to go out much lately.

Music Scene?
Water Street Music Hall? Jazz Fesival? MusicFest?

Sure the music hall can be fun, i've had fun myself doing nitrus baloons on the street waiting for 'great' bands like the buddahood and United Booty Foundation.

Maggie Brooks (and the Republican legislature which does whatever it can to fuck over the city even though without Rochester there wouldn't be their beloved Pittsford):Examples please.

Sure thing:
- Frontier Field: http://www.rochester-citynews.com/gbase ... oid%3A1685
- Two words, School Nurses: County government had obligation to continue decade long practice of providing school nurses to ALL schools within Monroe county.
- County stopped helping to fix roads inside the city even though it controls the budget for the Rochester Transit authority
- downtown DMV: county could have kept open the downtown DMV, the closure of which makes life difficult for city residents and puts the last nail in the coffin of the sibley building.

140,000 people rode the ferry for the 80 days it was running. The ferry sits idle NOT because of a lack of customers, but because of customs issues and delays in allowing commercial cargo. I also know for a fact that a number of Canadians came down from Toronto to see what was up (and to enjoy the favorable exchange rate).

True, the biggest problem is just bad business. For the owners to go forward purchasing a $42M boat partially with public money, they should have had CONTRACTS and APPROVALS instead of Assumptions about customs and cargo. Canadian interest is marked by the quality of the port they have built as part of the deal:

February 26 2004: Toronto ferry port a pathetic afterthought
The Globe and Mail

Some cities build ferry terminals that redefine architecture. Toronto is building a cheap metal shed that architects were given one month to design. After years of waiting for something better to happen along the waterfront, the lowest form of public architecture is being dished out. Patience isn't a virtue -- it's a trap laid out for the unsuspecting. The Toronto Ferry Terminal, which will connect the city with Rochester, N.Y., is like the crappy little bauble that comes wobbling out of a bubble-gum machine -- and breaks the moment you try it on.

Ya know, if you dared spend more than $200/month on an apartment, you'd probably find some nice places to live.

more like 650 for a 2 bedroom in corn hill which is supposed to be an ok urban neighborhood.

Police patrols of the park are common because of the potential for trouble during the summer. That's pretty much true of anyplace where drinking and partying go on, not to mention the fact that people like to drag race down there. As for the swimming, anybody who swims on a beach where signs saying DO NOT SWIM are prominently displayed deserves to drown.

Yeah, wonderful. Rochester has miles and miles of shoreline but the water is either too polluted (city pier) or too polluted with no lifeguards (durand, etc). A quiet evening with a girl on the beach shouldn't be off limits but it is. During the day, it's obvious the Sherrifs are mainly concerned with issuing as many tickets as possible, not keeping the peace.

Never been a problem for me.

Must never have had to try to spend a quiet evening with a woman on the beach. I've done it in the Florida Keys but it's not allowed here.

I'll agree that Doyle fucked up a lot of things, and that the Republicans basically control the county. However, Frontier Field is not a fuckup, and Renaissance Square is just something on paper at this point...there's no state funding for it this year. I also find it ironic that you complain about how shitty downtown is, then complain when somebody tries to do something about it.

The question about Frontier field is why it was built mainly by firms (law firms, engineering firms, construction firms) which are big Republican donors and why was it over budget with structural deficiencies that cost extra. The question about the bus station which has morphed into Ren. Square is why people that actually live in the city don't seem to have much of a voice in the project.

There's lots of cultural diversity here, lots of downtown festivals, good retail (especially Wegmans), good traffic, lots of good food, good schools (at least mine), quick access to Canada, etc.

Sure, the festivals were fun for me the first few years but then they became more of the same. Wegmans is great but Safeway and Publix are good too all over the country, not to mention Supercenters. Traffic is fine, so is the variety of ethnic restaurants. Schools are great if the tax base is fine and concentrated poverty is low, glad you are in a good district.

Go for it!

I intend to, thanks for the encouragement.

[AArdvark]

Yeah, get THE FUCK out. I don't like people putting down the place where I choose to live.

[Casual Observer]

Or the proper Rochestarian response to somebody planning to leave is: well, you can always come back if it doesn't work out. I don't think i've run across a city with a lower collective self esteem.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Nagasaki, 1946?

[chris]

Or the proper Rochestarian response to somebody planning to leave is: well, you can always come back if it doesn't work out. I don't think i've run across a city with a lower collective self esteem.

It has nothing to do with low self-esteem. People who come to live in Rochester (be it for a job, or coming to school, or whatnot) ALWAYS complain about the weather, and I, for one, am sick and tired of the whining. "Oh wah wah wah, it's cold, it's snowy, I have to brush the snow off my car, I can't wait until I graduate so I can go someplace warm". You KNEW you were moving into a northern climate known for having (sometimes) nasty winters, so STFU and put on a sweater.

[AArdvark]

YEAH! Snow is good!

[Guest]

You KNEW you were moving into a northern climate known for having (sometimes) nasty winters, so STFU and put on a sweater.

I knew and was dragged here kicking and screaming by my parents when my dad accepted a promotion. I can complain about the winter as long as I'm not a hypocrite by complaining "oh, it's too fucking hot" in the summer.

[Casual Observer]

oops, forgot to login.

[chris]

I knew and was dragged here kicking and screaming by my parents when my dad accepted a promotion. I can complain about the winter as long as I'm not a hypocrite by complaining "oh, it's too fucking hot" in the summer.

As long as you do all of your whining to your parents and not to those of us who've lived here all our lives, I certainly have no problem. I, for one, love the occasional blizzard.

[itgirl]

they keep the chain megastores on the outskirts of town where you don't have to look at them everytime you go somewhere

Wow, sorry I broke both of my ankles and got arrested for solicitation and missed the high points of this. But V, you clearly haven't been back to Saratoga lately. I was there well, see above, right before Ivan, for my mother's birthday (Sept. 25th, three days before yours). Let's see...There is a Borders where the "Where can you buy pot downtown? oh yeah, Pope's Pizza" used to be. It's three stories tall. There's a huge Starbucks next to the Adelphi Hotel. Across from that, where the really old Woolworth's was where you stole a lipstick once, and where the poorly conceived Sneaky Pete's of Togatown once lived, is a huge Gap / Ann Taylor / Banana Republic / J. Crew outlet shopping mall thing. Across from that is a block of Eddie Bauer. They've even opened a one million dollar YARN store there. Since when ISN'T Saratoga the yuppie haven? Where the "old mall" was is a Home Depot, Barnes and Noble, Lowe's, AC Moore, Panera, do I really need to list any more ultra-trendy stores / restaurants here? The only thing not there is a Home Depot Expo Center, and I bet they get one in the next three years. No need to go to Crossgates for good shopping anymore. It's all intown, and mostly in downtown. I don't even know if the Friendly's is there anymore. But I did see at least three gelato stands, and a guy in the parking lot of the Downtowner Motel was making and selling homemade kettle corn. Keep in mind this wasn't even during racing season, or peak foliage season, or opera, or orchestra, or ballet, and Skidmore wasn't back yet. I didn't even recognize the place.

I mean, I grew up there, I love it, Dad taught at Skidmore, the community was great when he died in June, Mom and John had a great law practice there for over 20 years, but now John works in Ballston Spa for the county, and Mom's retired, and the rest of Saratoga County is a SHITHOLE.


and chris, the Battle of Saratoga was fought in Stillwater, about 25 miles away, on the Hudson River.

</end New York State history>

[bruce]

they keep the chain megastores on the outskirts of town where you don't have to look at them everytime you go somewhere

Wow, sorry I broke both of my ankles and got arrested for solicitation and missed the high points of this.

Wait, WHAT?

GIF?

Do tell.

Was the ankle-breaking and the solicitation part of the same event?

Bruce

[Vitriola]

Yeah, let's stick to the REAL issues here, for Chrissakes.

Although Saratoga now also has a wine bar. BOOYAH.

(Actually, I didn't know any of that. Last time I was there I went snowshoeing in the golf course and still got lost on like the 11th hole and then went to 1 bar downtown to watch the Giants choke in a playoff game 2 years ago.}