Barack won

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Barack won

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:54 pm

Good.

No offense to anyone who is Republican, but I've heard some of the stupidest fucking arguments to vote against a guy that COULD ever exist, this election season. Not that do exist: that ever could exist.

This is the last post I anticipate making about politics for a very long time, at least until we get to the end of Obama's first term. To see the state that this country is, and the TIT SUCKING, MEWLING AND WHINING coming from the right when they realized Obama was going to win disgusted me more than any joy I'd in theory get in seeing Obama elected.

I received a different piece of physical mail for two weeks, never ONCE telling me why the other guy is good, but that Obama is the fucking boogeyman. One goddamn, easily-refuted lie after another.

I can't fucking wait. It would honestly be worth it if he shot all the white people, increased the budget for social services another 20%, announced his alliance to Allah, and whatever the else you dumb, miserable fucks who tacitly stood by while this country flushed itself down the toilet decided to assign to him. Have you ever seen a country shit its OWN pants? WE cleaned up the mess tonight. WE did the heavy lifting. WE did all the work. WE got the best guy for this country since Taft elected as President. A senior lecturer of Constitutional fucking Law... now our President.

YOU'RE ALL FUCKING WELCOME

Honestly, I take no joy in this. I wish McCain had been President the last eight years. (Assume he wouldn't have picked a fucking hilariously unqualified sped like Palin to be his veep in 2000.) I wish the 2000 and 2004 Republican ticket was McCain/Bush, and that Obama just kicked the LIVING GODDAMN SHIT out of Bush instead of McCain. As much as some sections of the liberal press would like to demonize him, because they are just as bad as the right, McCain sat in a fucking prison cell for over five years while he got the shit beat out of him and could have left as soon as the North Vietnamese figured out who he was. Maybe it doesn't make him qualified to be President, but it was infinitely more qualifications than fucking Bush will ever have. It fucking sucks that McCain got caught up in this, because in a way, seeing McCain as the nominee was already an enormous fuck-you to the miserable, greedy, selfish, debacle of a goddamn cash grab that was the Bush/Cheney Presidency, voted into office fucking TWICE by a majority of stupid shits that live in this country, all of whom think they're one correctly managed "big break" on a desolate, crumbling warehouse they're gonna turn into this sweet bar and grill from being multi-millionaires. McCain being someone the far right couldn't stand was ALREADY a move towards sanity in this nation. McCain fucked it all up in picking Palin, but then again, the American people didn't vote for Palin for VP. Nor would we ever.

So sorry, John. Voting for you would have been as moronic as voting for the Republicans right after Nixon left office, even though Gerald Ford was a good man as well. I'm sorry Karl Rove fucked you over. I'm sorry your party hung you out to dry. I'm sorry the biggest betrayal this country ever pulled on you had nothing to do with war or the senate, or the campaign you just ran, but Rove-Bush-Cheney treating you like scum they kicked off their shoes, when you were a better man than all of them. Not perfect. But better than that lot.

The worst President in the history of the United States, and one of the worst human beings ever spawned into the United States - who still believes history is going to give him a passing grade like it did Harry Truman (and don't you know it kills him that the previous high score for gaining in respect after being hated in office was a dem) - just coaxed an entire nation that he consistently failed to protect, guide, love or defend to give him an extended middle finger. I am loving the fact that Obama's middle name is the Antichrist to the frightened, cowardly right. I am loving the fact that the stupid coincidence is that we, as nation, wanted someone so undeniably different in just fucking name than Bush, that we were able to get someone with the same name of Bush's made-up nemesis that was never a thread to us. This is like James Bond returning to England to see Octopussy Goldfinger named the Prime Minister. This is like the Ayatollah Khomeini, with his last breath, seeing this man being named as the new Supreme Leader of Iran. The only reason Obama was elected President of the United States of America directly after you, GEORGE, is because there was no active politician in this country named Katrina bin Wmd.

The worst administration in the history of the United States is coming to a close. All that is left now is the crying and the pardons. We did the right thing. And for those that didn't, tonight, well, I know that politics is like rooting for a football team for many of us, and nobody wants to switch sides. That's all right, we'll carry you. Sorry if it sounds condescending, but we'll fucking carry you, because America only works when every single one of us are living in the same country, and this nation would be worse off without ANY of the 50 states, even West Virginia. You'll thank us, in the same way we'd thank anyone, as people living in from 2008, who voted for Lincoln.

We did it, and I wish there were more joy here. It doesn't matter. We just did it.
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Re: Barack won

Post by gsdgsd » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:09 am

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:The only reason Obama was elected President of the United States of America directly after you, GEORGE, is because there was no active politician in this country named Katrina bin Wmd.
One of the best lines of this campaign, right there.

Astonishing night. I was nervous as hell, despite all the early signs (voter turnout in particular) pointing to an Obama victory. When the early numbers came in for Georgia, I got really agitated -- it wasn't looking close early on. Then when Pennsylvania went to Barack, I calmed down, and when Ohio went, I started to grin...

...then when Virginia went, and the networks called the election, this city went fucking insane. People poured into Peachtree Street, us included, dancing, chanting, hugging. Even when the cops showed up for crowd control, they were grinning and slapping hands. I would imagine just about every unattached Obama voter in the city got laid last night. I've never seen so many people so happy. I'm pretty grumpy in general and can find the bad in everything, but it was one of the best things I've ever seen.

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Re: Barack won

Post by Bugs » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:35 am

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:WE got the best guy for this country since Taft elected as President.
Zuh?

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Re: Barack won

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:50 am

Bugs wrote:
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:WE got the best guy for this country since Taft elected as President.
Zuh?
I think Taft was the last awesome President we had. The man hated himself some trusts, and then went onto the Supreme Court afterwards. He was fucking awesome. Plus, he had some idea of what it meant to BE President, unlike most of the power-hungry assholes that took the job to feed their own egos.

What kills me is the number of people who are Constitutionalists and Constitution-based Libertarians who are still unhappy. THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT WILL GET IN 2008, someone who not only read it, but taught it. I swear to Christ there is no end game for a lot of marginalized voters.
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My apolitical view

Post by Garth's Equipment Shop » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:14 pm

I know you said you wanted that post to be your last one about politics ICJ but consider this a post from one who is openly and unashamedly apolitical. I have fun poking fun at any and all presidents and anyone with any significant amount of power or influence. I am not an anarchist or a libertarian either though I have read and admire some of the early classical literature from those groups like Kropotkin or like Paine, Locke and Mill.

I do sympathize with all third-parties on the principle that American history has been unfairly dominated by a two-party monopoly since the Union began. As an educated and loyal son of the South my view of politics is not narrow and limited to just the concepts and concerns of the fat rich Elephant and the ignorant Jack-Ass. My view of American history includes the Confederacy as a fully legitimate, even integral part and not as something alien to American history or to America's present. The federal government system is far more alien to me than the long lost Confederated States of America. Far more injustices and war crimes were committed under the stars and stripes than under the stars and bars.

I do not trust the Federal government any more than I trust any local good-ol-boy city cops and their crooked as hell buddies in local office. [BTW: The small southern town government corruption depicted in many films operates under the United States government not under the Old South Confederacy which hasn't existed since the uncivil war of Northern Aggression.

And no the South did not fight to preserve slavery. There were Black regiments who fought on our side too. The Confederated states were merely protecting their land and their families from the invasion of Federal troops sent by Lincoln who wanted to force all States to join his Federal Union. It has been proven by southern historians that slavery was already marked for eventual destruction in the south before Lincoln came into the picture. The war was completely unnecessary and was an atrocity against the American people by the American people. It was the saddest chapter in all of American history. Something we should never forget.

Like the founding fathers I look to ancient times, to Greece and Rome for my examples of what to look for in a great statesman and true honorable government. I have never in my lifetime seen even one living example of this. So I don't believe there is any such thing as an uncorrupt politician or any true statesmen in the modern world. The modern world is simply corrupted through and through as far as government and politics is concerned.

I know for a fact that voting does absolutely nothing because it has never mattered one bit who was in office. The government never was and never will be run by one man. And while that one man pretends to run things for a few years before being replaced by another puppet there are people we never meet nor vote for who are career politicians and government people who keep their jobs running things behind the scenes their whole lives.

They are the ones really running the government. And who knows what their position on any subject is? Only they and their close circle of fellow invisible government friends. Whatever their positions are they are the ones with the most real power and influence over the future direction of this country. Them and the media and entertainment industries with their combined power to reach into every home in America and speak to the people directly through powerfully evocative digital images and sound.

At this time in history I trust no large and powerful groups or organizations, I trust my own two eyes and people I meet face to face and get to know personally. I judge people on an individual basis and do the best I can with the resources immediately available to me and not the empty promises of some talking heads on TV I don't know personally and never will. It doesn't matter at all to me who is in office or what the latest controversy in Washington or on TV is. Life never changes for me regardless of all that.

So generally I stay out of the pointless game of politics and mind my own business and concentrate on what makes life for me a little more bearable. I am thankful for what I have in life and blame no one but myself for anything I can't or don't have. I speak out against injustices I see but I never expect the leviathan of government to step in and save the day - this isn't a utopian fairytale we live in. Its an ugly dirty inherently unjust reality.

The reason? Human nature is what it is and no one can change it. If we survive long enough perhaps nature will improve us and we will evolve into something better. Barring that we are all guilty of being flawed. Modern science, technology and power only succeeds in amplifying those flaws rather than correcting them.

Oh and by the way. I've never had any trouble whatsoever getting the girls even though I've always been apolitical. In fact, I would say most girls I've met rather liked the fact that I hate politics and politicians. The ones who didn't like it weren't very attractive anyway and were either boring or annoying as hell. Especially girls who call themselves 'liberal,' they are usually the most annoying of all. They have more issues and crusades and rules than the most over-zealous church lady. Church ladies annoy me too though.
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Re: My apolitical view

Post by Casual Observer » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:22 pm

Garth's Equipment Shop wrote:And no the South did not fight to preserve slavery. There were Black regiments who fought on our side too. The Confederated states were merely protecting their land and their families from the invasion of Federal troops sent by Lincoln who wanted to force all States to join his Federal Union. It has been proven by southern historians that slavery was already marked for eventual destruction in the south before Lincoln came into the picture. The war was completely unnecessary and was an atrocity against the American people by the American people. It was the saddest chapter in all of American history. Something we should never forget.
I grew up in the south too(first about 10 miles from Appomatox courthouse in Amelia county Virginia where they signed the treaty ending the war and then in South Carolina) and know that the school history lessons are a bit skewed down there. Southerners love to call the civil war the "war of northern aggression" so your point of view is understandable. You say the war was just to force states to join the union but leave out the fact that they were already part of the union and seceded. I know this because South Carolinians are still quite proud that their state was the first to secede. So I would say it's disingenuous to say that the war was to force them to join rather than to keep them from leaving.

I've also read lincoln's notes and letters from the time and know that slavery was in fact the number one issue driving a stake between the north and south. This isn't to say that Lincoln or most northerners cared much about the rights of blacks, rather the issue was one of political power and money. With a mostly agrarian economy, the south could benefit from slave labor much more than the north whose economy was more based on factories and trade. Northern politicians were concerned that the south would continue to gain wealth and power and overtake politically so they fell in line with the very small faction of people who were truly against slavery.

You say that the south was on track to abolish slavery but considering the segregationist behavior of the south since the war I'm wondering what the timeframe was supposed to be - another 400 years or so?

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Re: My apolitical view

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:59 pm

Garth's Equipment Shop wrote:Oh and by the way. I've never had any trouble whatsoever getting the girls even though I've always been apolitical.
Oh! Let me zip off a reply to this, as I can churn it out quickly at work:

The name of this base is an unfortunate side effect of years gone by. This BBS was originally in the form of a dial-up, modem-based BBS, from 1990-1998. I had the dial-up version of the board divided into sections like it is now.

Jeff, one of my friends (he's registered here as Jethro Q. Walrustitty) was the moderator for the politics/cars base. He is, and has always been, extremely liberal.

I tried to make all the base names some take-off on old video games, with this one being the Spellcasting 101: Sorcerers Get All The Girls game. Ha ha ha, etc, right?

The PROBLEM is that it is now 2008, and JQW has some weird hang-up that prevents him ever from visiting here. This makes people assume that I am the liberal in question. And really, I am not: I just hate GWB and like Obama.

But yeah, I don't mean to imply anything otherwise. I should probably change the name of the base, but I have no idea to what.
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Post by Garth's Equipment Shop » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:08 pm

Lol - thats cool that this place has such a long and interesting history. I like places like that. I live in a place like that. [probably most people do and don't even know it] A story behind everything you see.

As for my version of southern history being skewed [I know you didn't mean that towards me personally but you know how it goes] that is certainly debatable as are most anything you learn from government approved mainstream text books and curriculum. How can you trust anything written by the victors of any war - they can lay it all out any way they want to for posterity and most of posterity are going to accept it hook line and sinker because its just plain easier and they neither have the time nor inclination to dig any deeper. Thats all I'll say about that.

If anyone's interested in knowing about what really happened they can Pm me and I'll correspond privately by email since I, like the honorable ICJ, do not wish to get into a serious debate here where I have just come for a break from serious shit, to learn something about retro gaming, and for the laid back social atmosphere.
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Re: My apolitical view

Post by bruce » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:15 pm

Casual Observer wrote:Southerners love to call the civil war the "war of northern aggression"
ITYM "The War of Yankee Aggression."
CO wrote:You say that the south was on track to abolish slavery but considering the segregationist behavior of the south since the war I'm wondering what the timeframe was supposed to be - another 400 years or so?
The Peculiar Institution had, at most, another fifty years left in it, even if the war hadn't happened.

Of course, that doesn't mean that there would have been anything approaching full citizens' rights for blacks for centuries after that.

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Post by Casual Observer » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:55 am

Garth's Equipment Shop wrote:As for my version of southern history being skewed [I know you didn't mean that towards me personally but you know how it goes] that is certainly debatable as are most anything you learn from government approved mainstream text books and curriculum. How can you trust anything written by the victors of any war - they can lay it all out any way they want to for posterity and most of posterity are going to accept it hook line and sinker because its just plain easier and they neither have the time nor inclination to dig any deeper. Thats all I'll say about that.
No, certainly didn't mean personally you, more like the plural y'all. It's cool, we got us a black president sooner than anyone expected (i.e. shockingly in our lifetimes) so the past is the past anyway. I agree the war could have been avoided, apparently Lincoln seriously considered the option of some kind of huge human being bailout - buying the slaves to set them free - but chose to go the other way. I did love the south though, particularly the glorious full four seasons in Virginia and some great camping trips in the carolinas. Did you say where in the south you hail from?

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Re: My apolitical view

Post by Casual Observer » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:59 am

bruce wrote:The Peculiar Institution had, at most, another fifty years left in it, even if the war hadn't happened.
What exactly would have stopped the south from continuing slavery with impunity after they seceded? I'm not arguing, I've just never heard of this. All I can think of is a slave insurgency.

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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:32 am

I'll also say that I come off fairly petulant, re-reading this weeks later. I guess I was more fired up about the election than I thought, which was stupid, because 538.com had the projections almost all-correct, and they predicted it.

Plus, Bush ducking out of the way of that shoe was really funny. I wonder how good a President Bush could have been if Cheney and Rove were not part of the equation.
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Re: My apolitical view

Post by bruce » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:01 pm

Casual Observer wrote:
bruce wrote:The Peculiar Institution had, at most, another fifty years left in it, even if the war hadn't happened.
What exactly would have stopped the south from continuing slavery with impunity after they seceded? I'm not arguing, I've just never heard of this. All I can think of is a slave insurgency.
It was economically non-feasible. It would have been cheaper, sooner rather than later, to hire blacks for shit wages and make them buy their own shitty lodging and food.

That's a lot of the reason that the Union had a better production base.

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Post by bruce » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:02 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Plus, Bush ducking out of the way of that shoe was really funny. I wonder how good a President Bush could have been if Cheney and Rove were not part of the equation.
At least as good as Warren G. Harding.

Better than Buchanan, probably.

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Post by Garth's Equipment Shop » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:12 pm

Casual Observer wrote:No, certainly didn't mean personally you, more like the plural y'all.
Lol - touché!
Casual Observer wrote:It's cool, we got us a black president sooner than anyone expected (i.e. shockingly in our lifetimes) so the past is the past anyway.
Thats what I'm hoping will be the general conconsensus - but we'll see. Too soon to tell right now. You would think that having a Black [well half anyway] president would certainly put a damper on the old tried and true method popular among many Black folks of playing the race card anytime things do not go their way.

However, for those who've been around long enough to remember, the same was thought many times before yet in spite of the fact that racism has become increasingly taboo among 99% of all White Americans throughout my own lifetime [and I've lived and traveled all over the U.S. being in a military family] it is surprising how often I've still heard or saw the race card pulled.

Hell there are even sociology professors in ivy league colleges who teach the future leaders of tomorrow that only Whites can be racist and that Blacks who are poor or turn to a life of crime are not responsible for themselves but are rather victims of institutionalized racism. Yet Whites or Asians who are not successful in life or who turn to a life of crime are not excused for their bad choices in life [no one should be!].

There are of course good honest teachers who aren't 60's rejects on some crusade and do not teach this kind of nonsense. I've also had the privilege of conversing with some of the smarter or wiser Black Folks who do not buy into it either but their type seem to get farer and fewer between the older I get. It is sad that they aren't the leaders the rest of the Black American community look to as examples. Instead the youth have the icons created for them by Holywood and the B.S. they hear from nut-jobs like Farrakhan or Obama's old family preacher.

As I said only time will tell whether principles like responsibility, human integrity, a sense of individual honor and pride will win out or whether it's ugly opposites will. [i.e. self-pity, envy, shameless grasping for entitlements and privelages far beyond that of basic human or civil rights, the us vs. them mentality, and scapegoating]
I did love the south though, particularly the glorious full four seasons in Virginia and some great camping trips in the carolinas. Did you say where in the south you hail from?
I have fond childhood memories of Virginia though I wouldn't really call that the south. Thats pretty borderline both historically and geographically. But I guess technically it still is. I hail originally from Alabama. My dad was stationed in Fort Rucker, and I was born on base. I guess technically that wasn't really the south either - lol. I've lived all over but I eventually settled down here in good ol' Tennessee where my wife is from.

Another factor against VA being considered true south though is it's close proximity to the capitol, the oddly named District of Columbia. I always thought that was a strange name for our capitol when I was a kid. I half expected to see little leathery skinned coffee bean farmers with medieval looking wooden carts and what not when I first visited the city of Washington in my youth - lol. Later on when I was a teenager getting into the punk scene I used to visit there for the underground shows.

I went to military school in Virginia and my Commandant was totally obsessed with the history of the war between the states and took us on many a field trip to the Mannassas battlefields where he had us march in formation upon arrival and upon leaving and searching for bullets or any other relics we could find in between.

I thought it was a little strange, the marching in formation thing. I think he was using us to help him kind of relive the history in his own mind. I am sure he must have attended those big reenactment things. I was never into that myself though I've known many who were. I have no desire whatsoever to relive such a depressing time in our history. One good thing about it though. My dad was into computers as well as historical war gaming. So when Gary Gygax began turning his early medieval war game into the first fantasy RPG I was in the right place at the right time to catch wind of it and jump aboard the new craze almost as soon as it got off the ground!

Anyway, I too fell in love with the Virginia countryside. My friends and I spent a lot of time in the woods on weekends and hiking or motor-x on the fire trails that ran all through the woods near his home. Our families would go on camping trips together every summer traveling to all the beaches on the east coast in our campers. Our favorite hangout was the boardwalk on Murtle Beach. They had the best arcades there back then.
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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:08 pm

Along other lines, here is why I can't stand liberals. This is what one of them said elsewhere:
Hm he's already elected and yet he's moving further to the right.

Yeah I think it's time liberals started working on a real liberal candidate for the next time around.
(Anyone who starts out a sentence with "hm" or "hmm yes" will always be hilarious to me.)

Barack Obama is NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH for some people in this country. Jesus Christ, you'd think they'd understand that Kucinich is never going to get elected to any office higher than the HoR and deal with it.
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Post by Casual Observer » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:24 am

Garth's Equipment Shop wrote:You would think that having a Black [well half anyway] president would certainly put a damper on the old tried and true method popular among many Black folks of playing the race card anytime things do not go their way.

However, for those who've been around long enough to remember, the same was thought many times before yet in spite of the fact that racism has become increasingly taboo among 99% of all White Americans throughout my own lifetime [and I've lived and traveled all over the U.S. being in a military family] it is surprising how often I've still heard or saw the race card pulled.
Meh. In the interest of civility and following BHO's example of tolerance, I won't type what I really think about this. I wouldn't want to run off one of the few newcomers to Jonsey's forum. Merry christmas ICJ.

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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:30 am

And a merry Christmas to you as well!
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return the gift

Post by Worm » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:46 pm

http://black-man.ytmnd.com/
Garth's Equipment Shop wrote:Instead the youth have the icons created for them by Holywood and the B.S. they hear from nut-jobs like Farrakhan or Obama's old family preacher.
I don't want to get into some quote by quote thing here, but I have to agree. Growing up I'll admit it was hard for me to shake off all indoctrination from the black preachers my mom took me to see.

G.E.S, are you a freeper?
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Post by AArdvark » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:56 pm

D'ya think when the new economic plan is instilled people will call it Obamanomics?


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