Is it wrong to turn down free money?

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AArdvark
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Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by AArdvark » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:33 pm

I was talking to a couple of the guys at work and one of them said he won't work overtime because then he'd make too much money and they would cancel his welfare benefits. I can understand his pint of view buuut...Shouldn't getting a handout be shameful? I mean, the guy has a job and he's not an invalid. Wouldn't working harder to make more money be a virtue?
My mom was a single parent and raised two boys and she turned down any government assistance, even when it was offered. The guy at work is in his middle thirties and could care less if he's sucking the county cock for a monthly check. Didn't there used to be pride? Didn't there?

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Casual Observer » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:48 pm

Is this a single guy? If so, how little is he getting paid normally that he qualifies for actual welfare money? My brother in law is bipolar so i know a bit about social services, they've almost completely shut down giving actual money. I think they're only giving less than a couple of hundred bucks a month and even that is for a limited time. If the guy has a family then maybe he's getting section 8 or food stamp card. I have heard that there's an income band where a little extra money income causes loss of significant benefits. If he's single without kids then he's just a lazy fuck.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Tdarcos » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:11 pm

I for one would love to go back to work, but most places fear hiring handicapped people because of the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990.

In my case I can earn up to about $650 a month without it affecting my Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI). Above that SSDI payments are reduced by $1 for each $2 in monthly income above $650.

As it is beyond SSDI I get $100 from the county which is paid to Social Security to cover my Medicare premiums (or Social Security would have deducted that from my check), along with $15 (previously $16) in SNAP benefits (formerly called Food Stamps), and in addition to Medicare Part D (prescription assistance) I also get "Extra Help" coverage from the State of Maryland. Here is what my medications cost* for September from the itemized coverage plan from Silverscript, my insurance company:

Levothyroxin 125MCG 90 day supply - I Pay $3.30; Medicare $43.59; Extra Help $41.70
Digoxin 0.25MG 90 day supply - I pay $3.30; Medicare $0 ; Extra Help $105.98
Digoxin 0.25MG 90 day supply - I pay $3.30; Medicare $0 ; Extra Help $111.35
Eliquis 5MG 90 day supply - I pay $8.25; Medicare $593.73; Extra Help $585.47
Eliquis 5MG 90 day supply - I pay $8.25; Medicare $328.07; Extra Help $851.13

According to the report, total out of pocket payments I would have had to pay - without Extra Help - would have been $856.26, which is more than my rent and I could never have paid. This is in addition to more than $950.00 paid by Medicare Part D.


* I exclude contributions from Medicare or Extra Help of less than $5 on medications. This counts for anything from less than a dollar to $4.99 on about 5 prescriptions and totals about $20.
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AArdvark
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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by AArdvark » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 pm

All I know is that the guy could work more but he chooses to suck off the public teat instead. We should be allowed to look down our noses at this admission of laziness.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:48 pm

I can see where you're coming from, Vark, but at the same time I wonder if the rate of pay for the work has kept up with inflation in the last 30 years.
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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by pinback » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:30 pm

(Spoilers: Not even fucking close. Unless you're a 1%er.)
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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Casual Observer » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:08 pm

AArdvark wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 pm
All I know is that the guy could work more but he chooses to suck off the public teat instead. We should be allowed to look down our noses at this admission of laziness.
I don't know, vark, I'm more bothered by people who depend on social services who hypocritically advocate for political parties [libertarian] and pieces of shit [trump] who work against those same services. If that lazy guy at your job is a trumpster then he's a hypocrite as bad as mr 650 here. My brother in law spends his SSD money for meth but at least he's not speaking up for the bigot in chief.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Casual Observer » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:27 pm

Tdarcos wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:11 pm
I for one would love to go back to work, but most places fear hiring handicapped people because of the Americans With Disabilities Act
you're a fat hypocrite and now a liar: you could work as a consultant through a company if you hadn't become morbidly obese (no offense pinback) and completely useless to society. If only you had a company (wait, don't you?) you could work on contract so long as you didn't pay yourself too much. I know a guy who has been doing it for 25 years. You could have learned c++ 20 years ago, jesus christ theyre still teaching rhat, give up cobol and machine code for christ sakes its 2017 not 1975. I get it it's easier to minimize your lifestyle to rolling escapades in cheapness but you apparently threw in the towel 30 years ago. Libertarians don't believe the government should be in the business of taxing me to pay for your SSD + Medicaid and trumps only similarity to you is he's fat and likes to roll around on things. I make 165k talking to people on the phone in my home office chair, I'm sure someone who is not a worthless piece of shit like you could earn something worthwhile consulting. Keep speaking up for trump and parties that align with repugs and let's see who it hurts worse.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Billy Mays » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:25 am

Your coworker is a piece of shit.

Also, to save anybody else the hassle of looking up those medications Tdarcos listed, they are all used to treat conditions related to being fat.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Tdarcos » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:35 am

Casual Observer wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:27 pm
Tdarcos wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:11 pm
I for one would love to go back to work, but most places fear hiring handicapped people because of the Americans With Disabilities Act
you're a fat hypocrite and now a liar:
You want to cite statistics? Average unemployment rate for disabled people is around 80%.
you could work as a consultant through a company if you hadn't become morbidly obese (no offense pinback) and completely useless to society.
It's water under the bridge. Complaining about it doesn't solve the problem.
If only you had a company (wait, don't you?) you could work on contract so long as you didn't pay yourself too much.
To get a contract for any reasonable amount - which means, at least minimum wage - you have to meet them in person, and once they see you're disabled, you might as well go home. They're afraid they'll have liability issues if something happens to you.
I know a guy who has been doing it for 25 years. You could have learned c++ 20 years ago, jesus christ theyre still teaching rhat, give up cobol and machine code for christ sakes its 2017 not 1975.
Will someone please tell me where this chimerical fantasy came from that I have anything to do with Cobol or machine code? I haven't touched a Cobol program in over 20 years and I haven't written assembly probably in 25.

I have yet to hear of anyone using C++ to write web applications. Maybe when CGI was brand new but the current capacity makes languages like PHP, which is built into Apache, a much better choice. Or Python / Perl / Ruby on Rails. And C++ is not available for Android or Apple mobile devices, you use Java or something that can compile into Java Virtual Machine bytecode.
I get it it's easier to minimize your lifestyle to rolling escapades in cheapness but you apparently threw in the towel 30 years ago.
I had to reduce my lifestyle because I receive about 20% of what I made working for a living.
Libertarians don't believe the government should be in the business of taxing me to pay for your SSD + Medicaid
No, it shouldn't. Only thing is the government mandated I pay those same taxes and collected them from me by distraint. Since the money to pay those insurance premiums was forced out of me, since I now qualify to be paid back in some fashion I'm damn well going to take whatever I can get, and not be victimized twice.
I make 165k talking to people on the phone in my home office chair, I'm sure someone who is not a worthless piece of shit like you could earn something worthwhile consulting.
I don't have the contacts to do consulting without having to interview face-to-face and anyone who would do so will automatically dismiss anyone with a disability. You got alternative ideas, I'm all ears.
Keep speaking up for trump and parties that align with repugs and let's see who it hurts worse.
You seem to keep showing your inability to read. I have never spoken up for Trump and I think my comments made that clear. What I said was, before you are so gung ho to dump him, consider what his replacement might be and are you sure Pence is going to be an improvement? And have you considered how damned hard it is to get an impeachment, plus the fact no President has ever been convicted in an impeachment trial?

Today's Washington Post has a great article about what to do about Trump's incompetence. I get the paper delivered so it's on page A17, but you can probably find it online at http://washingtonpost.com with the op-ed piece by Colbert L. King titled "Mad at Trump? Vote against his enablers." It's here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 2a8044ef7b but the on-line version has a different headline. Some suggestions are to fight back: get registered and work to get others registered because voter suppression is a big favorite of republicans and is just around the corner. And watch state and local races: some candidates like Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, Darrel Issa of California and Barbara Comstock of Virginia, among others mentioned, are essentially clones of trump.
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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:07 pm

Tdarcos wrote: I have yet to hear of anyone using C++ to write web applications. Maybe when CGI was brand new but the current capacity makes languages like PHP, which is built into Apache, a much better choice. Or Python / Perl / Ruby on Rails. And C++ is not available for Android or Apple mobile devices, you use Java or something that can compile into Java Virtual Machine bytecode.
This is probably not the place to give you the following information, but what the hell. This has morphed into attacking you, and I don't appreciate that, because there was already a thread attacking you.

(We have a political base now. Go challenge his assertions there, people who want to talk politics on-line.)

There is a concept I want to tell you about when it comes to web applications. The front end and back end are separated. The front end -- written in Angular in places I've been exists with a backend (Java in the places I've worked). API calls relay the information that the frontend receives to the backend. The backend will then throw it to a database.

Nobody worth mentioning is writing web applications in C++ only these days. I have no insight if it is used for the backend component of web applications, but I can't see why it wouldn't be.

Now, onto another topic - if you would buckle down and take two years and learn JavaScript, C++ or Java you would have more work than you think. The world has changed since 20 years ago. I consider it a strength if I can hire a programmer to do a task who doesn't live in my area, it means that they aren't going to show up on my doorstep and attempt to go drinking and driving and other things that Billy assumes we all do in our off hours. I would have hired you to port a Hugo interpreter to JavaScript if you had known it. I would have hired you to update the Hugo interpreter if you had known C++. I would have hired you to write automation test in Java for the various places I've worked over the years on a contract basis. I would have hired you to make a Java-based dungeon crawling engine. There's all this stuff I don't have time to begin to implement but can then extend.

And that's just me! I have been working in the land of computers for 20 years. I have a network of colleagues and former co-workers. Ben has a network. Flack has a network. Half the people that have ever posted here are software engineers. People need code. And I'll give you credit, you sit down and write the code when you put your mind to it. Your rates are reasonable. An employer doesn't have to worry about you running off to three weddings in a summer or taking four weeks off for Christmas.

There's a ton of opportunity out there for you.
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by AArdvark » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:45 pm

I bet it pays more than ten bucks

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Billy Mays
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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Billy Mays » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:07 pm
attempt to go drinking and driving and other things that Billy assumes we all do in our off hours.
According to the time stamps, I had already issued my retraction and you acknowledged reading it prior to you making this comment. I respect your statement here only as a jab at me and not as a factual relaying of an event.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by The Happiness Engine » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:09 am

Here's a different question: Why is 'work' considered dignified? It's just something you HAVE to do to be able to do what you WANT to do. historically this idea was used as a way for the white poor to look down on and distance themselves from the black poor because the white poor's welfare comes as 'mortgage incentives' and home-ownership plans instead of something as gauche as the food one needs to survive. The fact that it can be used to convince the poor to vote against their own self-interest is just a bonus.

Social welfare is the price the rich pay to exploit the poor because otherwise there'd be a goddamn revolution, as the robber-barons came to realize.

P.S. For all Paul's bitching about his 'forced taxation' there is NO WAY he paid in even remotely what he has drawn out, so that whole argument is basically a sham covering the only core libertarian belief: "Fuck You, Stole Mine."

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by RealNC » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:48 pm

The fortune cookie that came with my fried noodles today, said:

"It's better to beg than to steal. But it's also better to work than to beg."

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by AArdvark » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:58 pm

Perhaps if a person was able to keep what they earned instead of helping to pay for the less work-inclined there would be less animosity. The co-worker gets free money at the expense of those that wont stoop that low.
So should we, the proud lower our work ethic or should they work more?

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by The Happiness Engine » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:24 am

Again: all social welfare programs are there to stop the poor from murdering you. And they are laughably underfunded. If you want to roll through life like Paul on 650/mo, more power to you. If you want to meaningfully lower taxes cancel something useless like the the fucking Ford-class CVs at 18 billion a piece. You know how many cans of tuna you can get for that?

Or you know, make the rich actually pay their fair share but haha good luck on that buddy.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by pinback » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:28 am

The Happiness Engine wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:24 am
18 billion a piece. You know how many cans of tuna you can get for that?
Costco has the six-packs of wild Albacore for $15. That seems like a lot, but that's the premier, highest-quality canned tuna. So, even if you went the highest of the highest end, that's 1,200,000,000 cans of delicious, pole-caught pacific Albacore. Man, that's tasty.
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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by AArdvark » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:33 pm

So we should eliminate the poor.

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Re: Is it wrong to turn down free money?

Post by Casual Observer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:40 pm

AArdvark wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:58 pm
Perhaps if a person was able to keep what they earned instead of helping to pay for the less work-inclined there would be less animosity. The co-worker gets free money at the expense of those that wont stoop that low.
So should we, the proud lower our work ethic or should they work more?
I'd say THE has it right, make the rich pay more of a fair share. Maybe proud workers like us should be working harder to elect democrats to stand against the continual republican push to give rich people more tax breaks. Have you read about their new tax plan? Rich people get 80%+ of the tax cuts while they fuck middle class families with cutting the mortgage credit, cutting the child deduction, and fuck people like me by eliminating the state income tax deduction. CA income taxes are insane and deducting a portion of that saved my ass with federal income last year. Corporations shouldn't be paying a lower tax bracket (20%) than me (25%) and the estate tax hurts nobody except trump like trust fund babies.

Bottom line, I have much less animosity toward someone scraping by at the bottom even if they could work harder than middle to low income people who are republicans. Almost none of the people who voted for Trump will see any benefit if their tax plan passes and their health care is in serious jeopardy as long as Trump is in office. When will these idiots stop voting against their own best interest?

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