Snagging the fat chick, why is this a problem?

[Tdarcos]

On a separate thread there was this comment to pinback about his "taking one for the team," remark:

It's not like your shagging the fat chick
So that your best friend can hook up
With her hot friend.

I want to unpack this. This is one I've never understood. Who cares what she looks like? You're getting to bang her! Plus, if she's actually thirsty, she'll be grateful as hell and she'll probably let you stick it anywhere in her. If she smells, shower with her and maybe you even do her in the shower.

I really don't see where it matters what she looks like, if you're on top of some woman who's spread eagled and eagerly waiting for you to stick it in, you're not even going to notice what she looks like, because you're going to slide your dick in her, move your head into the nape of her neck, and have a wild time for the next 7 or 8 minutes as you enjoy bouncing up and down on her as her pussy greedily holds tight to your dick moving inside her, pleasuring you tremendously until you come and blow your load, and if you're clean (and she is) you have her use contraceptive film and you get to ride her bare.

Obviously she consented because you talked her into fucking you. Even if you don't want to eat her, (say she smells) you can always fingerfuck her, plus letting your thumb stroke her clit, for a few minutes ,until she tells you to stick it in her. So even if you're lousy in bed and she doesn't come from fucking (but, oh man yeah, you did), she's still going to be grateful for how good it was. If you offer to do her at least once a week, she'll probably be okay with you having other girlfriends.

So now you get to go out hunting hot chicks - which, like you, 99% of the guys are also trying to bang - who are usually very picky on who'll they'll let bang them. If you can pick up one, great, so you have to spend money on her and convince her you're worthy to use her twat. If you strike out, you've got a side chick with whom you're basically guaranteed to get laid any time you want it, and she won't even require you spend any money on her.

You know, I hear about all these "incel" (involuntary celibate) men who can't get laid, my guess is they're still trying to pick up a 9 or 10 who has lots of other guys who have more resources than them, whereas if they spent time trolling for fat chicks, they'd probably score easy, and if she's the typical fat broad who frequents fast food joints, is more likely a cheap date, too.

Hell, you don't even have to lie to her. You just tell her you want to ask her out so you can show her you're a nice guy so you'll let you take her home and make love to her, because fat girls deserve love too, and they're usually very passionate.

I mean, maybe I'm missing something. it's like this, if you're selling something and people won't pay the price because others offer the same thing, only better, at the same price or less. you have to lower your price until you do get interest. So if you're a guy looking to get laid, and all the other guys are getting hot broads while you aren't, why not go after the fat or fat and dumpy looking ones where it's probably like shooting fish in a barrel?

I hear about guys chasing women and striking out because they go after the super hot ones everyone wants instead of going after the less attractive ones who have the same openings and are trivially easy to get into bed. Remember what I said, your dick moving inside some broad you talked into bedding you is not going to care what she looks like, only that you got to fuck her. And, those hot chicks are usually bony. You hard bang some fat chick, she doesn't cry out because it doesn't hurt, she's able to take it and she'll like the attention.

I hear it's said guys think with their dick. If so, I would presume they want pussy they can get even if the package isn't that nice, over unobtainable pussy in the nice, shiny package. Or maybe they're not thinking.

Am I missing something here?

[Mama Blue]

But why can't women not be "nice shiny packages" and fat too?

I have never in my life been thin.
I do not consider myself ugly.
I have no problem getting thin, attractive men.
They come looking for me.

[Tdarcos]

But why can't women not be "nice shiny packages" and fat too?

I have never in my life been thin.
I do not consider myself ugly.
I have no problem getting thin, attractive men.
They come looking for me.

There are attractive, fat women! In fact, it's only been over about the last hundred years that guys have targeted the "heroin chic" emaciated woman or supermodel type. Throughout history, survival was hard - remember what I said to you about being a survivor - and most people lived on the edge of starvation. A woman who was "Romanesque" or padded was a sign of wealth, as only wealthy people could be overweight.

I mean, my own appearance, 6' 2" and smart - people would tell me I am - would be very attractive back during the '70s. If I hadn't been extremely overweight I probably would have had 5 or 6 women before I was 20.

But I am referring to fat women not otherwise attractiive. The fat chick in high school that nobody wanted to be friends with or walked around all alone. Fat and ugly, she has two strikes against her. Or some young lady who's shopping alone, with lots of cat food in her shopping cart.

Introducing yourself is basically the same regardless of body type. Some guy shows an interest in her, asks for her number, then calls and talks to her for a while, then asks her out. Or maybe doesn't so much ask, but presents a "fait acompli". He says, "I think you're cute and I'd like to take you out. Is tomorrow at 7 okay or would 7:30 be better?" (The idea is it requires more effort to turn him down as "no" doesn't fit as a respomse.) The reason is to put the idea of going out with him in her head, and makes it easy to say yes, either by accepting one of the times or she gives a time that works for her.

So he takes her on a reasonable date, goes to the kind of food place she'd like which is not expensive. )The whole idea is you don't try to impress her by spending money.) Goes out after either to something that doesn't cost anything or is inexpensive but fun. Date ends, he drives her back to her car or her place. Checks her body language, goes for a kiss. If she closes her eyes, she's interested. Otherwise, without holding her, lean over, come to about half an inch of her lips and stop. If at any time while doing this, she pulls away, or shows she's uncomfortable, then she's not ready to kiss. But, if she kisses you, then obviously she's definitely ready. She might even be receptive to a low-key proposition.

Now, he can try asking her if she'd like to come by his place for a drink or a snack. If she says yes, chances are good she'd be willing to bed him once he gets her to a comfortable place and asks nicely. If no, he can ask if she'd be interested in another date. If so, he schedules it either for the next day or when it's good for her, using the same fait accompli method above. Now, he can be doing this with 2 or 3 of these type women - unattractive and fat, chances are at least one is DTF if asked. He takes her on another date if she isn't the type to put out on the first date.

My experience has been that if she's interested it will happen by the second date, or at most, the third. If not, not, it's her loss and there are lots more women available. Men don't need to chase women, there are lots available with not much effort.

This ties in to a story I posted which I can't find. It was called "Two People on a Third Date." Just about everyone here disagreed with it, because they took the woman's side. But I can't remember if anyone had a good reason why.

The story went something like this: A guy is on the couch at a woman's place and she breaks after he whispered in her ear he'd like to take her to bed. "I can't; not yet."
"Okay," he says, and gets up. "I'll be leaving now. Goodbye, Alanis."
"Are you going to call me?"
"No. I won't be dating you any more. I'll find someone else. Thank you for your time." He starts to leave.
"Wait! You're breaking up with me for that?"
"Yes. This is the third date we've been on. When I asked on the first date, you said it was too soon. Fair enough; some women think they look easy if they have sex on the first date. So I asked you out again. At the end of that date, I asked you again, and you said you weren't sure. So I gave you one last chance. For whatever reason, you've decided I'm not good enough, and I suspect I never will be. So I'll try again with some other lady that I'd have a chance with."
"What, do you think you're entitled to sex and I owe it to you because you spent money on me?"
"Nope. I am not entitled to anything from you. You don't owe me anything. It does not matter whether or not I spent money on you. You have the absolute right to decide who you want to be with or sleep with. You have every right to say no.
"However, the same rights apply to me, too. You're not entitled to my time and I owe you nothing. I have every right to say no as well. I can decide I won't spend any time with you if I'm not permitted to be intimate with you. Since you won't agree to that, I'll leave. Same as you would make me leave if I touched you inappropriately."
"So you mean if I want to see you again I have to let you screw me?"
"No, you do not have to do anything. You can choose to consent to sex with me, or choose not to. And I can decide, based on that choice, whether I will choose to stay. Nobody is forced to do anything, has to do anything, or is pressured to do something they don't want to do.
"You decided I'm not good enough to have you in bed. So you can change your mind, or I'll just accept your decision. The only reason I'm explaining this is because I do like you, but I'm not going to spend time with someone who thinks I have to prove myself. I have condoms, and I can do some amazing things to please you in bed.
"All you have to do is say yes, or say no. So, do you want me to stay?"

- - - -
So that's the story that everyone here sided with the girl. I don't understand it. I'm not exactly sure why her desire to have him in a platonic relationship, overrides his desire not to participate on those terms.

[Tdarcos]

I'm wondering if there aren't sime Freudian slip issues here that I didn't notice, or wasn't consciously aware of, because while in this thread I am talking about a guy having consensual sex with a fat girl, i.e. "shagging" her, I titled this thread "snagging," one, which only means to catch one or pick one up, and might not necessarily include having sex with her.

[Jizaboz]

ROFL I just noticed it said SNAGGING although I originally read it as "shagging".

LOL I can't stop laughing now.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

"I mean, my own appearance, 6' 2" and smart - people would tell me I am - would be very attractive back during the '70s. If I hadn't been extremely overweight I probably would have had 5 or 6 women before I was 20."

...

"So that's the story that everyone here sided with the girl. I don't understand it. I'm not exactly sure why her desire to have him in a platonic relationship, overrides his desire not to participate on those terms."

Well certainly your deep understanding of personal relationships would have had you banging 400 or 500 gals before you were 20, don't sell yourself short.

[Jizaboz]

lol

[Tdarcos]

"So that's the story that everyone here sided with the girl. I don't understand it. I'm not exactly sure why her desire to have him in a platonic relationship, overrides his desire not to participate on those terms."

Well certainly your deep understanding of personal relationships would have had you banging 400 or 500 gals before you were 20, don't sell yourself short.

And again, you've failed to give any explanation about why a guy can't decide after a cetain number of dates to stop seeing a girl because shes put a condition of no intimacy on their dating. Note, in the scnario, she has never said she won't ever, just no. She has also not stated in any fashion how many dates it will take before she might be willing or it is conclusive she's not interested.

Do you think the problem is he should have just ghosted her and not told her why?
Do you think he can't ever stop dating her if it's clear she's not interested in a physical relationship?
Do you think it is reasonable for a guy when dating a girl to see if she might be worth making his girlfriend to expect that they will have sex at some point?
Is it that he's not even allowed to expect that at some point a dating relationshup includes sex?
Is it that he should have bailed after the first date?
Do you think it was not long enough?
How long should a guy have to take a girl out and being told no before he can decide she's not interested in intimacy?

I mean,seriously, I thought the point of dating wasd to find out if the two of you are compatible together, that you can do things and have shared interests. Do you think physical intimacy is not an item that can be considered? Remember, I didn't say he wanted it from the start, I said after they had spent time doing something and had dinner. Remember, also, he said his spending money is not relevant, so it's not like he is demanding a quid-pro-quo.

If you can't explain, maybe it's because you don't know.

[AArdvark]

If you can't explain, maybe it's because you don't know.

A-hahahahhhaaaaaa!!

Best laugh of the day!

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

And again, you've failed to give any explanation about why a

It's because you are autistic AND painfully arrogant, which is a hell of a combination. You don't understand how humans relate to one another, but that can't posssssssssssssssibly be it, although that's always it, and I feel bad giving you a hard time about it. But you're so arrogant about it.

The problem with your creepy, made-up scenario is when the guy has a "shower conversation" with the woman. That's where everyone stops taking the guy's side. If, in your made up scenario, the guy didn't painfully articulate his position people wouldn't flock to the other side, no matter what it was. You don't understand anything about the culture you live in, and the entire post comes off as some sort of sad reverse power fantasy. Ohhhh I'll show HER.... I have the power!

And then your painful attempt to justify it:

A guy can't decide after a cetain number of dates to stop seeing a girl because shes put a condition of no intimacy on their dating. Note, in the scnario, she has never said she won't ever, just no. She has also not stated in any fashion how many dates it will take before she might be willing or it is conclusive she's not interested.
Do you think the problem is he should have just ghosted her and not told her why?
Do you think he can't ever stop dating her if it's clear she's not interested in a physical relationship?
Do you think it is reasonable for a guy when dating a girl to see if she might be worth making his girlfriend to expect that they will have sex at some point?
Is it that he's not even allowed to expect that at some point a dating relationshup includes sex?
Is it that he should have bailed after the first date?
Do you think it was not long enough?
How long should a guy have to take a girl out and being told no before he can decide she's not interested in intimacy?

There is an expectation here and it's presented in such a sniveling, juvenile way. This is the "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you" of Elliot Rodger and his shut in band of incels trying, desperately, to seem like "nice guys" here.

How long should a guy have to take a girl out and being told no before he can decide she's not interested in intimacy?

You miss the point because you don't understand the point. The reason people take the side of the other person in your scenario is that your self-insert protagonist ERRRRRRRRR guy in this example is vocalizing any of it at all.

But it's not your fault, we've had thousands of these threads and you are completely convinced you're right in all of them. I do give you more credit than I do CO, who read a post about the Chris Rock slap the other day and seriously and without irony was dumb enough to think he was actually being apologized to instead of laughed at.

[Tdarcos]

And again, you've failed to give any explanation about why a

It's because you are autistic AND painfully arrogant, which is a hell of a combination.
You don't understand how humans relate to one another, but that can't posssssssssssssssibly be it,

Did you ever think that i might be trying to understand?

although that's always it, and I feel bad giving you a hard time about it. But you're so arrogant about it.

Okay, I don't understand how people are, you give me a hard time about it, I ask why, and you tell me I'm being arrogant.

The problem with your creepy, made-up scenario is when the guy has a "shower conversation" with the woman.

What do you mean by a "shower conversation?" I pointed out that in the scenario, he's doing this while standing at the door about to leave. If this is some sort of analogy or metaphor, I don't get it.

That's where everyone stops taking the guy's side. If, in your made up scenario, the guy didn't painfully articulate his position people wouldn't flock to the other side, no matter what it was.

Yes, I know people don't articulate their position. In the real world, he'd simply have ghosted her and went on to find another woman.

i'm also trying to point out something. She never tells him to stop asking her, that she needs time to think about it, or whatever. Therefore she apparently likes the attention. Typically, if you hit on a woman and either you're a creep, or she's classified you as "not interesting," either she'll tell you to stop asking her, stop the date and leave, or both.

I suppose I could have just done the whole scenario in his head, in which he thinks about it, realizes if he tells her the points as to why, she's going to assign all kinds of entitled behavior, then tells her "you wouldn't understand," and leaves. There would never be an exposition. He'd simply stop calling he and leave it at that. She probably wouldn't call him back and would be miffed that he stopped asking her out.

You don't understand anything about the culture you live in, and the entire post comes off as some sort of sad reverse power fantasy. Ohhhh I'll show HER.... I have the power!

Now, you have it wrong. She has all the power. She said no. So he's leaving. And he tells her to be courteous rather than ghost her. She has all of the power here. He is not forcing her, he's just refusing to deal with her further on her terms.

You seem to forget. In a dating situation, unless he's some famous actor or musician where she's very interested, she has all the power in this situation. He is trying to sell her on the idea that he would be a good choice with whom to beome intimate. He does this by showing her a courtesy, a nice time, and how he acts in public. But on the first date, she says no. He tries another date to do someting else. He asks her again. She says no again. So he tries a third time, he goes out with her on another date to do things, and asks her if she's interested in intimacy, and her answer is still no. So, he wasn't good enogh for her, and he stops bothering. All of the power in this scenario belongs to her because he wants something she has and can't get it without her permission.

Consider the scenario when buying a car. You walk up to a dealership. The salesman tries to sell you a car. Who has the power - all of the power - in this situation? The customer or the salesman? As much as people rag on car salesmen - with good reason - all the power in this interaction is in the hands of the customer. They can walk away at any time. So the salesman offers a test drive. The customer tries it and says he'll think about it, then leaves. He comes back another day. The salesman offers him another test drive. He says he'll think about it, then leaves. He comes back another day. He takes another test drive. He says he'll think about it, then leaves.

Do yo think by now maybe the salesman is going to think it's too hard to get that customer to buy something, so the next time he comes in looking to take a test drive, the salesman won't bother with him any more? Maybe not after only three tries, but sooner or later he'll realize he ain't gonna make a sale. So, if he decides when he gets tired of it that the customer buy something, or go waste the time of some other salesman.

In the dating scenario, the salesman is the guy taking her out on a date, the sex he wants is the sale, and the woman is the customer. She has all the power because she can walk away.

In the case of a date it is the same thing. She has all the power, because he's going on a date to meet a girl, and maybe find a girlfriend She can end this at any time. He wants to be with a woman, so he has to go along with taking her someplace, and trying to sell her on himself. If he hasn't piqued her interest, she says no. He figures maybe if he can try again he can show her he can bw intersting. so, at some poinr, whether it's the third date, or the seventh, he'll realize she just isn't interested. So, he tells her goodbye, and leaves, throwing in the proverbial towel. Never calls her again. So let's say she calls him back to find out why. If she asks why, he might just simply say, "I could explain, but you probably won't understand it's too complicated."

So, if she hangs up, then tht's it. But let's say she really wants to know why. All I am essentially dong is dropping the intermediaqte ghosting-callback scenario and explaining why.

In this particular case I decided to explain his reasoning. He tried to attract her. After three times, he figures she's not interested. So then she is going to get indignant like she thinks he thinks he's entitled to have sex, or he thinks she owes it to him because he spent money on her. And he points out, it's not the money, he isn't entitled to anything and she owes him nothing. The idea is, he's willing to try this many times, and if she says no, he'll respect her decision, and go elsewhere.

The whole point was to show that he is willing to try three times with her, and if she rejects hin, so be it. But if she wants to know why, he'll tell her.

Even in the final scenario, she still has all the power. She can still turn him down. All that he is saying is if he's going to spend any more time with her, she has to give him a reason to want to stay. It's basically a "fish or cut bait" scenario. Accept me, and my terms or reject me, I want more than just companionship. You can choose to go further, or not, but no half measures.

And then your painful attempt to justify it:

I was not trying to justify it. I was trying to understand why you objected. Since you wouldn't tell me, I had to guess, and I guessed wrong. Your problem wasn't that he set a "three date limit" before bailing, it's that he explained his reasoning. In the real world, he wouldn't explain why he quit, he'd just tell her she wouldn't understand and walk out.

I asked those questions to try to understand why you rejected the scenario. I got the impression when you took the woman's side, that you meant he's wrtong for breaking up with her; what your problem was that normally, he'd just walk away and wouldn't explain, or if asked tell her she wouldn't understand and walk away.

[Jizaboz]

You guys should tone it down.

Be A Friend.

[Tdarcos]

You guys should tone it down.

Be A Friend.

Jiz, let me ask you, excluding the explanation, is it reasonable for a guy to ask a girl back to his apartment, or to visit her at hers, with the intent/implicatioh that if she is willing, to have sex with her?

In this day and age the answer is yes. This isn't the 1950s where it was usually "no nookie without putting a ring on her finger."

Now, the next question is, is it reasonable to ask her on the first date? Not creepy, just as a question. I think it is, and the information I have supports it: game shows that have offered a couple the opportunity to go on a date together, found 25% of the couples do have sex an their first date.

Now, having nothing more than personal experience, after going out on dates dozens of times, I've found the second date is the sweet spot. By the end of the second date, she's pritty much decided whether she would, if you asked her, or she's assined you to the friend zone. I just looked at the research, and everwhere I read says about 35% do have first-date sex, but the number are skewed. Most men do expect it by the third date, but most women expect it by the fifth date.

I mean, now I understand this a little better. Men are more "obvious" in their interest in sex and are much more likely to raise the issue. Women are just as interested and want it as much as men, but sociey gives women advantages in not being obvious.

As I gave in my car salesman example above, the customer has all the power because the salesman wants to sell him a vehicle. In a date, the woman has all the power because the man wants to sell her on having sex with him. As long as he has to convince her, she has all the power. So, anyway, a car salesman does everything he can think to make the customer want the car. A suitor on a date does everything he can think of to make her want him. It is only when the other person has been convinced they want it does the salesman/suitor have any power, because if he can make the sale / seal the deal, i.e. get her in bed and/or get her clothes off. But until he gets the customer to sign / get her to consent to sex, they still have the power to say no.

At that point, absent some huge problem, neither will change their mind, and in the dating scenario, if he does the things to ensure she also enjoys the experience, the odds of her changing her mind and revoking consent are very low.

[pinback]

Little bit rapey, all I'm sayin'.

[Jizaboz]

At that point, absent some huge problem, neither will change their mind, and in the dating scenario, if he does the things to ensure she also enjoys the experience, the odds of her changing her mind and revoking consent are very low.

I mean.. I think I do get what you are saying, I just don't understand why we are talking about it. Hahahah

But, OK I'll play along and just say I think since at least ehh.. maybe 2003 that most of the meeting/asking on date dynamic you describe was completely pissed to the wind by a lot of people due to the Internet. After trolling or participating at a forum for porn or whatever 2 people will eventually start private messaging each other. At that point after a couple of "computer dates" (ie; webcam conversations, whatever) both parties usually make it pretty damn clear if they want this to become a RealLife thing.. and usually by the time they do they've already made the decision to "SNAG" at the first opportunity they are alone.

No one had to get "rapey", no one had to play the "do they like me?" game, none of it.

[Tdarcos]

2 people will eventually start private messaging each other. At that point after a couple of "computer dates" (ie; webcam conversations, whatever) both parties usually make it pretty damn clear if they want this to become a RealLife thing.. and usually by the time they do they've already made the decision to "SNAG" at the first opportunity they are alone.

No one had to get "rapey", no one had to play the "do they like me?" game, none of it.

I just realized I'd forgoten that the world has changed.Posibly for the better,, but it has changed. Especially with all the things we did to compensate for the roblems caused by Covid-19. Video chatting is now a common thing. You can't pretend to be more attractive than you are. You can't "catfish" (pretend to be female) and the person gets the oportunity to learn a lot about you before they ever meet in person. So now, in person meets probably have higher chances for a hook up since they already know them. Now, perhaps, going out together for an experience (a game like billiards, bowling, tennis, etc.) becomes less stressful because you can just enjoy the experience, not have to worry about making a good impression, or wonder what are their chances of getting laid.

I met someone online back before we had all these things, and we spent about a month comunicating, by then we had prety much decided when the chance ocurred that we could arrange it, we would have sex. I sometimes referred to her as a "clasy broad." (you'll see why, later) So we decided to have our first meeting fort breakfast, we agreed to meet at a Roy Rogers (a slightly better place than McDonalds. We ordered, we took the food with us, and drove over to a nearby local park and used a picnic table, ate, and talked.

In fact, if she didn't already have a prior engagement we would have gone to a motel rigjt then, essentially our first meeting ("date.") She told me what her prior enfagement was: she had to drive her son 250 miles (I think it was because he didn't have his lucense yet) to North Carolina so that he could meet in person the girl he had met on line and was comunicating with, so they could do what they decided on from their conversations, to go to a motel and have sex once they met. (This is why I considerd her a "classy broad"" wulling to help his son out like this.) Plus, she was not subsidizing this trip, he was using his own money to pay for her gas and the motel room (and probably lunch). We did meet again for a second date a few days later, and, as planned, we did the same thing and went to a motel.

And that's all I'll say about what happened.

- - - -
Sent from a mobile phone.

[Jizaboz]

And that's all I'll say about what happened.

Cool.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

And that's all I'll say about what happened.

Cool.

Yes. Think we're all done here! We're good! Nothing left to say in this thread!

[Mama Blue]

[/quote]
Yes. Think we're all done here! We're good! Nothing left to say in this thread!
[/quote]

But...

[Tdarcos]

Since Blue Ray Disc has added a caveat, I'll try asking this question. As she noted, there are a number of women, "not in shiny packages," (extremely shy, unattractive, fat and not particularly attrctive) who seem to be of "slightly looser moral persuasion" as Boone put it in Animal House.¹

So, given this to be the case, the so-called "incels," or "involuntary celebate" men, who claim they can't find available women at all, is it that they go for high-status or high-value women, i.e. very attractive, etc,. are routinely turned down because there are lots of higher value men interested in them, and thus these incel men have a general either bad attitude with women, or are out-and-out misogynistic, or is it that they have such a low opinion of women to start with they'd even turn off a so called "bar skank"?



- - - -
❶ Katy, to Boone: You mean a girl he can screw on the first date.
Boone: You could put it that way,
-