Seriously, how is this not in the Best Of base yet? It has the three things that have long since come to symbolize Best Of threads:

1. Scintillating golf analysis.

2. Long, hostile posts by fat people who don't post here (or eat vegetables) anymore.

3. ICJ writing about something other than Scotland or googling something from his car.

COME ON.

My anger has long-ranging, damaging effects.

[quote="pinback"][quote="pinback"]It should be said that there is a very real, if highly unlikely, chance that this will be Tiger's last tournament.[/quote]

Okay, well, Tiger is done for the season.

The chance that he is done for good is now significantly less unlikely than when I posted the above.[/quote]

It happened because you were mean to Finsternis.

Bruce

[quote="pinback"]It should be said that there is a very real, if highly unlikely, chance that this will be Tiger's last tournament.[/quote]

Okay, well, Tiger is done for the season.

The chance that he is done for good is now significantly less unlikely than when I posted the above.

[i]BEST OF!![/i]

[quote="pinback"]I'm [i]laughing[/i] at the "superior intellect".[/quote]

Now you're quoting James T. Kirk at me?

Ben, you are a very angry man. You have a well of anger that goes very, very deep and is always just waiting to come out. I find that very sad.

You seem to enjoy spewing venom at even the slightest opportunity. You really [i]like[/i] it. I wonder why that is.

Unlike you, I'm going to be mindful of what I say. My first instinct is to flame you to a radioactive cinder. But I'm not. I refuse to continue the cycle of negativity that you've started. You flame me, I flame you back, you flame me back, everyone else on the board jumps in, and it's a massive storm of negativity and hate that makes everyone feel bad. All from your one little post. So I'm forgoing the insults.

You begged me to come back here. You promised it would be civilized. You promised to behave. You promised ICJ would, and he, at least, has acted maturely and lived up to it and that's been pleasant. Kudos to ICJ. I have to admit, I had serious doubts about how long you, who fly off the handle so easily, would be able to keep it up. I am sorry that I was right. I didn't want to be.

What brought on this massive outpouring of hateful language? What unforgivable insult could I have used that has made you so very angry? Hmm. Let's see, what did I do? Did I kick your dog? Fuck your girlfriend? Call your mother a whore? Steal all your money?

No. I said 1) that Tiger Woods seemed like a nice guy; 2) That I don't have a lot of respect for professional athletes, and 3) that I didn't think the way they ended the tournament was a good one. Which one of those, exactly, has made you so very angry? Which one has reduced you to such sputtering of epithets? I think you like Tiger Woods, so I doubt it was the first thing. The second thing was a general statement having nothing to do with you and TW only tangentially (after I already said something nice about him). And the third this has nothing to do with you, either, yet you seem to have takes it as personally as if I kicked you in the balls. Why do you have such an incendiary reaction to something so stupid?

You know, the insults of Herr Wurm and The Clown don't affect me in the slightest. I don't even notice. I read right past them. It's just the useless wind of a couple random internet strangers who don't know the first thing about me. Now, your insults - they don't bother me, either, but after enough time it gets annoying. It's like having someone shoot Nerf darts at you all day. They don't hurt, but eventually you feel like saying "Hey, do you [i]mind[/i]?"

I dunno, call me a romantic, call me a dreamer, but I had been under the impression that we had been friends for 15 years. Over the course of those years we've had a lot of fun times in person, but most of the time it's only via the internet due to your irrational fear of the telephone. And when I think back, I can only remember a very few occasions when I ever insulted you, and most of them were here on this board during your previous campaign against me. But you call me an asshole or some other insult basically several times a week. And you know, I give you some leeway, but I'm really starting to get tired of it. It makes me ask myself "why do I bother?"

In all that time, I think you've said exactly one nice thing to me, and then only because I challenged you to, to see if it was even possible for you. Now, I don't expect my friends to blow smoke up my ass or flatter me. You aren't required to say nice things. But - call me traditional - I kind of feel that friends don't spend most of their time viciously insulting each other for no reason. In fact they actually stick up for each other - sometimes even when they think their friend is in the wrong. Because, you know - that's what friends do. At least, that's what all my other friends do.

I could understand this outburst if I had behaved horribly. If I had started insulting you first, said something really nasty about you or someone else, or actually done anything wrong at all. But the only thing I did was express opinions that you don't share about topics which have nothing to do with you personally. So did I deserve the way you're treating me? Absolutely not. Frankly, you owe me a huge and public apology, though I certainly won't hold my breath waiting for it. I'm sure this message will be met with more insults. Despite your promises, you took the very first possibility, the most paper-thin of all excuses, and started attacking me.

Ben, I feel you've acted very badly. I feel you've treated me very badly. I feel you've broken your promise to [u]not[/u] do exactly what you are doing. In the course of two weeks you went from effusively thanking me for being here and saying my posts were "the best on the board", to nasty insults. I feel I've been the victim of a bait-and-switch. So I'm not into sports. I'm allowed to have that opinion without getting all this abuse for it. I didn't say anything bad about anyone, let alone anyone here, let alone you personally. Unless the person who decided how to end the tournament was a personal friend of yours, you have zero reason to be so abusive.

You've become a source of negativity. As I explained, I don't want that. There are a million places I can go if I want to insult and be insulted. I was kind of hoping this would be a fun place if you could just restrain your temper. But sadly, if anyone needs an anger management course, it's you. It's too bad all those books you read on psychology and philosophy appear to not have helped you one bit. You still have zero control.

Well, I will show you what mindfulness is. I am making a conscious effort to not continue a cycle of negativity. I am forgoing my right to blast right back. But I feel sorry for you. All that anger just below the surface must really eat you up inside. As I often say, "Your punishment is being you" - an angry, unhappy person. That much is obvious despite your protestations to the contrary. Happy people don't carry around so much unfocused rage. I may be a bitter curmudgeon much of the time, but I at least make an effort to treat my friends like friends and not convenient targets for taking out my anger on.

So I think that, once again, my time here is done. I don't see the situation improving in the future. I guess it was fun for a week and a half, which is more than I expected. But I'm trying to think of a reason to stay and I can't.

When I send this message, I'm going to delete my JC bookmark. If you really think you can change your ways, act like a civilized human being and a friend, then post a public apology here that's as sincere as your insults were, and send me a link. If I think you really mean it, maybe I'll reconsider. But I strongly doubt that. You aren't the apologizing type, and I know you'd never swallow your pride enough to do so in front of everyone here. So I don't expect to be back. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you have the capability to value friendship, if you even understand what that word means.

ICJ, I can see why you're upset that every new person gets chased off the board. I had just hoped that maybe Ben wouldn't be one of them. "I guess I picked bad day to quit being a cynic and expecting the worst from people."

For once, I'm not pleased at how right I was.

I'm sure this message will be met with a storm of jeers from most of the people here. You may want to save your time - I will never see them.

[quote="Finsternis"]Your fragile little ego is so fucking desperate to find ANY target to belittle, ANYTHING to prop up your pitiful need for a sense of superiority. It is the saddest fucking thing I have ever seen in my life.[/quote]

[i]"I know you are but what am I?"[/i] is the motherfucking best you can do now?

I'm [i]laughing[/i] at the "superior intellect".

Well, to bring this thread to a close, let me just thank you one and all for helping to make this the very [i]best[/i] 2008 U.S. Open thread we've ever had!!

Post +1!

[quote="Ice Cream Jonsey"]It was amazing. I wish I had taken off work to see it, instead of just catching it over the Internet. Good on ya, golf. Good on ya.[/quote]

This was a wonderful post, thank you for writing it. I agree with everything you said.

Including the fact that the vast majority of golfers are assholes. This is a topic I will delve into more deeply later in this base.

[quote="Ice Cream Jonsey"]Well, it's either Tiger or Jack, right?[/quote]

Right. The only other two you ever hear mentioned are Sam Snead and Bobby Jones. Sam Snead won more tournaments than anyone, and Bobby Jones, before he retired at 30, basically won every tournament he played. However, both these guys were playing against nobody, so it's generally assumed that Jack, Tiger, probably even Arnie and Vijay would kick their asses heads-up.

[quote]And I'd be surprised if Tiger quit - football players come back from his injury and play.[/quote]

Thing is, we don't yet know what the injury is, because Team Tiger is being so secretive about it. One thing we do know, it's definitely worse than they said, leading up to this tournament. We learned just yesterday, for instance, that Tiger's doctors recommended he skip this one. Who knows how much damage these 91 holes did?

[quote]So you would put Tiger Woods ahead of Jack Nicklaus right now, right this VERY second, if Tiger retired?[/quote]

Well, what criteria do you use to judge? If you go purely on record, then it's difficult not to pick Tiger, seeing as how, while he's still four majors and eight wins short of Jack, he is way, [i]way[/i] ahead of Jack's schedule, and if he were to remain healthy, it's nearly impossible to come up with a scenario where Tiger doesn't [i]destroy[/i] all of Jack's (and Sam Snead's, while we're at it) records. The only argument to this is the "level of competition" argument, which you bring up, and I'll address later in this post.

What other criteria? Tiger's short-game was better. Jack's long-game was perhaps a little more consistent. Tiger is the best putter to ever live. They both played a similar type of game, trading accuracy for length. Jack, being the pudgy wad of goo he was, could never match Tiger -- the most ripped, fit golfer to ever strap on spikes -- in raw power.

I think where they are dead even, and why they are the only two up there in the golf stratosphere, is their mental game. They are both completely unflappable, and more importantly, when they play against you, no matter who you are, they want to kill you, then kill your family, and any assorted pets lying around. Even Jack, today, at his ripe old age, when he's in interviews, will never give you an inch if you suggest he couldn't have destroyed anyone they put in front of him. They both have that obsessed quality of determination to make you weep, to make you wish you had never picked up a club in the first place. This is why they are so great.

But, I mean, how do you pick against Tiger?

[quote]And in similar, yet different lines, let me ask you this: would it be safe to say that Nicklaus had better competition when he played?[/quote]

Of course, we will never know, and this is all subjective reasoning. Is Tiger so dominant because his competition is weaker, or because he just genuinely is that much better? The [i]depth[/i] of talent is much greater today, about that there is no question. Jack just butted heads with Arnie, Gary, Tom every week. There were no Trevor Immelmans and Zach Johnsons coming out of the woodwork like there is today.

So, Jack had Arnie and Gary and Tom, Tiger has Phil and Vijay and Ernie. Who's better, Arnie or Phil? Who knows? Arnie has more wins, but does that mean that he's better, or that [i]his[/i] competition was weaker?

Who the hell knows? I think Arnie and Phil would give each other a good game, and even if you think Jack's closest competition was better, I think that's offset by the depth-of-field difference.

I say it's a wash.

[quote="pinback"]YES, you fucking bag of shit...[/quote]

Your fragile little ego is so fucking desperate to find ANY target to belittle, ANYTHING to prop up your pitiful need for a sense of superiority. It is the saddest fucking thing I have ever seen in my life.

These are all excellent questions, which I hope I remember to answer tomorrow.

[quote="pinback"]If he does go out right now, four short of Jack's major record, there should still be zero doubt that he is the best golfer of all time.[/quote]

Well, it's either Tiger or Jack, right? Everyone just assumes that Tiger will keep going for a while. And I'd be surprised if Tiger quit - football players come back from his injury and play. If you're young enough, you can even come back at a high level.

So you would put Tiger Woods ahead of Jack Nicklaus right now, right this VERY second, if Tiger retired?

And in similar, yet different lines, let me ask you this: would it be safe to say that Nicklaus had better competition when he played?

My first job was as a clerk at a driving range. You did a little of everything, cashier, dude-who-runs-the-tractor-that-picks-up-the-balls, BALL WASHER LOL, etc. So as a result I hate golfers.

Oh no, don't get me wrong, they're fine people, good Americans. Nothing they like better than to kick back and watch a little Mork n' Mindy on channel seven with a cool, cold, Coors 16 ouncer. They're fine people, but they don't know that I wish them all dead.

Kidding! Not kidding. There were a handful of good guys (who, since it's been over 15 years, have probably died off in great numbers, now that I think about it). But the majority were pricks. The average golfer can not hit a tractor moving at 2 MPH, by the way, though if you ask them, they are all crack shots.

So for that reason I never got into watching or playing golf. All I can say, after experiencing the playoff today in the limited way I experienced it (getting updates from Ben) is that it really was the finest sporting event of the year, so far, which is a huge compliment considering how the Super Bowl ended.

It's also likely to be one of the most amazing perfomances of golf of all-time. Wow. WOW.

I had one of my knees reconstructed and I still feel the surgery once, ehhh, say once a week. Just a little, "hi!" to remind you that you had surgery. I can't remember if Tiger got his meniscus cleaned up, or replaced or what, but JESUS CHRIST, people should not be doing what he did mere weeks after knee surgery. They just shouldn't. Christ, almost all can't, so it's moot! But Christ, Christ, Christ.

And you have to give it up for Rocco Mediate. 45 years old and finally -- I assume? -- peaking as a golfer. It gives hope to us all, frankly. He went 18 holes with Tiger Woods, the Most Dominant Athlete of Our Lives Except For Wayne Gretzky, and came out even. Even!!! Another frigging trip through every hole wasn't enough.

You can't even say "he played his ass off" - he did, of course, but he did something far greater. So few of us will ever get a chance to go up against someone who is the best in the world at something. So few of us are qualified, so few of us have the skill ourselves, so few of us internalize the things we are good at into non-competitive talents, like being a good father, or a good worker down at the dock, or good at figuring out the plot twists of CSI:NY.

But Rocco Mediate got to go up against the best in the world and I'll guarantee you he learned more about himself in six hours today than his previous 45 years. Here's the [url=http://www.sportsline.com/golf/leaderboard/playoff]scorecard[/url]. The most important part of the match was when he birdied three straight holes to end the 15th. He put the pressure on Tiger Woods. Tiger had to birdie the goddamn 18th hole to simply survive. He did it, of course,, because Tiger Woods is the man you cannot compute, control, or comprehend. He's a robot of golf, out there doing shit nobody thought possible. But Rocco Mediate, with 9 professional wins to his name, went up against Golfing Killbot 9000 and forced him to birdie the last hole. Amazing.

You can't have those two guys out there forever, so sudden death ensued, on a hole that Tiger had birdied earlier that day (and Rocco not), so really Tiger's "win" was kind of cheap when you think about it. No, no, just kidding. I pretend to dismiss golf because so many golfers shrink like little babies when Tiger's a-coming, but what happened today was incredible and exactly the opposite.

Tiger's opponent, Rocco Mediate, did [i]not[/i] shrink away. He did not back down. He did not give up. He did not get caught up in the aura or anything like that. He went down like a man and gave the Legend a fight. Rocco just ran out of holes.

It was amazing. I wish I had taken off work to see it, instead of just catching it over the Internet. Good on ya, golf. Good on ya.

[quote="Finsternis"]Up until that point they were exactly tied in score. Are any of those facts incorrect?[/quote]

YES, you fucking bag of shit, they were NOT exactly tied in score, it was a fucking legendary up and down, see-saw battle of wills. God, ONE time in your stupid fucking life it would be nice if you asked a fucking question or tried to learn one fucking thing about what you're talking about before you explode the gasbag in your stomach and it comes farting out your mouth.

[quote="pinback"]IMing me this wasn't enough, eh? You just had to cut-and-paste this little nugget of wisdom into this thread[/quote]

You're the one who suggested I post here. You're just mad because I posted the part you didn't agree with along with the other part.

[quote="pinback"]This is a THREAD about GOLF in a SPORTS BASE. If you don't care about sports, and don't have respect for people that play them, then that is [i]totally fine[/i]. STAY OUT OF A SPORTS CONVERSATION [/quote]

I'll post in whatever threads I feel like. If you don't like it, I suggest a simple solution: don't read my posts in this thread. Easy-peasy. Everyone's happy.

[quote="pinback"]your fragile little ego is so fucking desperate to find ANY target to belittle, ANYTHING to prop up your pitiful need for a sense of superiority.[/quote]

Not true. There are also things I like a lot and praise greatly. Athletes just don't happen to be one of them.

[quote="pinback"]It is the saddest fucking thing I have ever seen in my life.[/quote]

Then you must have a very happy life!

[quote="pinback"]I tried, too, to explain this to you over IM, but you do not understand golf, you don't understand the scoring, and even though I explained it several times, you failed to understand that they played NINETEEN GODDAMN PLAYOFF HOLES to determine a winner today. [/quote]

I understand that they played 19 holes. and I understand the scoring now that you explained it. But that has nothing to do with the fact that it was a crappy way to decide things.

[quote="pinback"]Does that sound like sudden death to you? Perhaps it does[/quote]

Indeed it does. They played one last hole. Whoever got less strokes on that one hole won the tournament. Up until that point they were exactly tied in score. Are any of those facts incorrect? If not, in what way is that NOT sudden death?

[quote="pinback"]That was, genuinely, your worst post in the history of your life.[/quote]

You can please some of the people some of the time...

Shrug. I write what I want. I don't write to please you. Some of my posts please you, some of them do not. Deal.

[quote="Finsternis"]Tiger Woods seems like a nice guy and I wish him the best. But I think saying someone is the best of all time at smacking a little ball with a club is not saying much. I have more respect for the accomplishments of someone who actually did something useful.[/quote]

IMing me this wasn't enough, eh? You just had to cut-and-paste this little nugget of wisdom into this thread so everyone [i]else[/i] can see what an asshole you are.

This is a THREAD about GOLF in a SPORTS BASE. If you don't care about sports, and don't have respect for people that play them, then that is [i]totally fine[/i]. STAY OUT OF A SPORTS CONVERSATION if you don't like it! But I know that's impossible for you, because your fragile little ego is so fucking desperate to find ANY target to belittle, ANYTHING to prop up your pitiful need for a sense of superiority. It is the saddest fucking thing I have ever seen in my life.

[quote]And I definitely think there is a much better way to settle the tie than sudden death. That's like playing ten games of basketball, tying at 5-5, then saying "let's flip a coin and whoever wins is the better player." Or it's like the superbowl being only one game. One one anything is not enough to prove who is better. In fact the fact that they were tied for so long shows that they are very, very close in skill, which is all the less reason to end it on something so random.[/quote]

I tried, too, to explain this to you over IM, but you do not understand golf, you don't understand the scoring, and even though I explained it several times, you failed to understand that they played NINETEEN GODDAMN PLAYOFF HOLES to determine a winner today. Does that sound like sudden death to you? Perhaps it does, since you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and started asking me "don't they determine the winner by who won the most games?" like in between each hole they play a round of Tiddly Winks or something.

That was, genuinely, your worst post in the history of your life.

Tiger Woods seems like a nice guy and I wish him the best. But I think saying someone is the best of all time at smacking a little ball with a club is not saying much. I have more respect for the accomplishments of someone who actually did something useful.

And I definitely think there is a much better way to settle the tie than sudden death. That's like playing ten games of basketball, tying at 5-5, then saying "let's flip a coin and whoever wins is the better player." Or it's like the superbowl being only one game. One one anything is not enough to prove who is better. In fact the fact that they were tied for so long shows that they are very, very close in skill, which is all the less reason to end it on something so random.

It should be said that there is a very real, if highly unlikely, chance that this will be Tiger's last tournament.

The knee is not good, and when asked about it, he has been giving some very cryptic, almost ominous responses.

He'll probably stay off it for another month or so and come back for the British open in July, and roll on for another ten years toward a legacy nobody will ever touch.

But mark my words, if he comes out in a week and says, "that's it, I'm done," do not come to me and say "Ha, you had absolutely no idea that that was going to happen!"

Do not come to me and say that.

If he does go out right now, four short of Jack's major record, there should still be zero doubt that he is the best golfer of all time.

2008 U.S. Open Playoff Analysis


[b]Analysis Summary[/b]

There you have it. The most incredible sporting event in history.