Rosetta Stoned Bass Pattern

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Expand view Topic review: Rosetta Stoned Bass Pattern

by Lysander » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:57 pm

Not exactly. It's interesting, because so many of these are two-measure patterns that can be counted multiple ways. First off--it's an 8, not a 4. So 5/8 and 7/8, but you could call it 2 of 6/8 and be done with it. The second bit (where they change keys from d to a) adds an extra beat to make it 13; so so you could count it one of 6/8 and 7/8, or one of 9 8 and one of 4 8, 5 8 and 3 8. Also, the second time around they add an extra beat on the end again, so that one time around is 14/8. The "The poetry that comes from the squarin' off between" is in 6/4. The soft section with the bass solo (Yeah, that wa thing's the bass) is in 9/8 although that signature starts up while the drums are still playing, but the guitar's playing 4/4 over it. When Maynard sings "Sense of compassion" they alternate between 9/8 and 7/8, although the little trill before the bass drum starts thudding is in 4/4. When the drums really kick in the whole section is 28 eighth notes long, so you can count that up in a bunch of different ways; 2 of 5/4 and 1 of 4, 1 of 5/4 and 2 of 9/8, three of 9/8 with the last one having an extra note tagged on (which would be the same as above really)--hey, whatever's easiest. Same with the section after it--14/8, so you could count it as 2 of 7/8 but I think that they want it to be 2 of 5/8 and one of 4/8. "I know the pieces fit" is in the 5-7/8 thing like the beginning, and the last part... guess what... in 4/4. Now aren't you all glad I went and did this?

by Molly Muffsweet » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:25 pm

pinbacker wrote:
Blindy McBlinderson wrote:Don't I look stupid.
No. You don't look at all!
First you change your username and now Lysander? Who's next?

by Bugs » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:12 pm

Blindy McBlinderson wrote:Oh. Well, now. Don't I look stupid. Anyway when I get some time I think I'll do Schism next.
No you don't. And Schism's easy. 5 alternating with 7. So 12 if you want to call it that, but it's much easier to count 1-2-1-2-3/1-2-1-2-1-2-3. And they thrown one bar of 4 in there at the end of every chorus or something just for SCHEISSE UND GIGGELEN.

by pinbacker » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:23 am

Blindy McBlinderson wrote:Don't I look stupid.
No. You don't look at all!

by Blindy McBlinderson » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:17 am

Oh. Well, now. Don't I look stupid. Anyway when I get some time I think I'll do Schism next.

by Bugs » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:15 am

Blind Dude wrote:I assume you (Bugs) are referring to the beginning of the second half of Lateralus when you talk about it being in 3/4. SInce the bass is playing 3/4 and that's what hte main "groove" is around, then, yeah, the overall "feel" of the song is probably in 3/4. But then again the lyrics are sung in 4/4, and so is the guitar, so really who can say? It's all math in the end.
Yeah, no, I was talking about Rosetta Stoned... The part about 7 minutes in that pinback referred to at the beginning of this thread with the crazy syncopated bass line. That part, to me, is just 3/4 with all sorts of syncopation and emphasis on different beats by both the drums and bass. Plus I think Adam Jones then comes in on guitar and slathers the whole hell out of the thing with sextuplets.

Tool seems to be big on things like that. Like, (an oversimplified example), two parts broken up into 4 bars of 5 and 5 bars of 4, where it all adds up in the end.

by pinbacker » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:51 am

No, he's talking about the Stoned pattern, which started this thread.

Nobody but you cares about Lateralus.

by Blind Dude » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:51 pm

I assume you (Bugs) are referring to the beginning of the second half of Lateralus when you talk about it being in 3/4. SInce the bass is playing 3/4 and that's what hte main "groove" is around, then, yeah, the overall "feel" of the song is probably in 3/4. But then again the lyrics are sung in 4/4, and so is the guitar, so really who can say? It's all math in the end.

by Bugs » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:22 am

Yeah, I'm up too late, after a long week bumping up and down the east coast to conferences and weddings and all kinds of shit.

I haven't been able to get this song out of my head for weeks, and I thought I'd add to this thread again to reiterate it's (the song's) awesomeness.

I'm sitting here listening to it in Rochester on my laptop while staying up until 3:30am EDT to call my wife and help her wake up because she has to catch a 5:30am flight to Philly for a gig she has on the Jersey shore on Saturday.

by pinback » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:22 pm

Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen
Shit the bed again
Typical.

by Bugs » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:35 pm

By the way, there's something beautifully tragic, comic and mystical about this song all at the same time. I usually don't pay attention to lyrics, but when I do, sometimes it's a pleasant surprise.
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen
Shit the bed again
Fuck. I mean, FUCK. So awesome.

And if Justin Chancellor's bass playing was a woman, I'd marry her.

by Bugs » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:31 pm

Anyway, yeah, I was kidding about the time signature. I probably know more about music theory than anyone here except possibly for the blind dude. To me, it seems the complex part of the song discussed earlier in this thread is just a simple 3/4 pattern..., but it could be split up any number of ways I guess. That's the beauty of cross-rhythms and hemiolas and shit. Lotsa ways to count it out.

But, I had the great fortune of seeing Tool at Bonnaroo last month. Fucking brilliant. Maynard dedicated this song to everyone at Bonnaroo, and now I get it, that the main character is basically an old burned out hippy who talks about how the Dead aren't even on tour.

Tool is one of the few acts out there today whose music deserves great scrutiny and close attention. I wish I could see them again on this tour, but I don't think it will happen.

by pinback » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:44 pm

Lysander wrote:So: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 8, 5, 3.
Holy crap! I never noticed that.

Of course, I'm not in love with that song, so haven't studied it to this extent. But that's pretty dang cool.

by Lysander » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:17 pm

Please tell me you're joking. (Bugs.)[/list]

by bruce » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:20 am

Blind people's super-senses scare me.

Bruce

by Worm » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:07 am

It was the little odometer that let Kirk know he was going backwards in time (to nazi germany) in that one episode.

by Bugs » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:54 pm

Wait, what's a time signature?

by Lysander » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:50 pm

Lateralus!

Anyone who knows anything about music and knows of the song Lateralus has probably already figured out the cool rhythmical paterns that are in here, but just in case you don't, I'll outline a few of it, and maybe along the way explain just why I find this to be my favorit song of all time.

The chorus riff is, in fact, in three time signatures. If you're playing it, it's probably easiest to think of it as being five measures of 3/8, then one measure of 2/8 (or 1/4 if you like), two more measures of 3/8 and then a measure of 1/8. So: 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 repeat. But how you're "supposed" to look at counting it out is in relation to the over-all song structure, by counting each of the main three phrases as its own measure. So, in that case, it consists of one measure of 9/8 time, then a measure of 4/4 (or 8/8), then a measure of 7/8. So: 1 2 3 4 5 6 (here the riff moves from D to G) 7 8 9 (moves to F; drums have just completed a fill) 1 2 3 4 5 6 (back to G) 7 8 (the stuttered pattern starts) 1 2 3 4 5 (riff moves to the C and then D an octave up) 6 7 repeat.

After this, the lyrics start. What's interesting here is that the lyrics are actually themselves being used as a rhythmical instrument; count the sylables. "Black, then, white-are, all-I-see, in-my-in-fan-cy, red-and-yel-low-then-came-to-be, reach-in-out-to-me, lets-me-see. There-is, so, much, more-and, bec-kons-me, to-look-through-to-these, in-fin-ant poss-a-bil-a-ties. As-be-low-so-a-bove-and-be-yond-I-im-ag-ine, drawn-out-side-the-lines-of-re-son. Push-the-en-ve-lope, watch-it-bend." So: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 8, 5, 3. What are these numbers, I know you are asking delightedly? Yes, these numbers actually have a significance outside of the song itself: they are the first few steps of the "Fibonacci Sequence," which is a spirally mathematical concept that involves taking two numbers and then adding the number previous to the second one to it and then continuing on down the line. So: 0, 1, 0+1=1, 1+1=2, 2+1=3, 3+2=5, 5+3=8, 8+5=13, and so on, forever; this sequence actually occurs in nature in a few places, if anyone cares. Think that's cool? Well guess what: 987, the top numbers of the three-signature chorus section, is also a step in the same sequence; as it happens, #17.

I won't bother going into the paterns on the guitars because they're both pretty simple; the drum beat, however, is a bit tricky: bassbass high-tom high-tom bass mid-tom bass bass low-tom low-tom low-tom bass; mid-tom mid-tom bass mid-tom bass bass low-tom low-tom low-tom. And then, because that wasn't hard enough to remember, he ads a hihat chuck with the left foot on every eighth note. In the next section, while the bass and guitars are playing sixteenth notes on a measure of 5/8, the drum riff changes--while the hihat is still going--to: low-tom low-tom low-tom bass mid-tom mid-tom bass high-tom high-tom bass; low-tom low-tom low-tom bass high-tom high-tom bass mid-tom mid-tom bass.

But I'm not done yet! I won't bother going into diagraming the drum or guitar solos, because, really, no one cares, although there is one neat when the drums and bass are continuing the 9/8/7 patern while the guitar just plays a straight 3/8 Low-D, C, D patern. However, the bridge does do something rather interesting, which I will comment on.

First, it's the same part that's played at the very beginning of the song. SO they play their bridge first, which I find somewhat interesting. Anyway, it starts out with the bass playing 4 16th notes on the D in a 3/8 patern. But after that, the drummer comes in playing alternating 16th and 32nd hihat triplets in 5/8 time. Over this weirdness, the guitarest is playing in plain ol/ vanilla 4/4, starting with one two-note section of the riff, then adding another one the next time around, and so on until the very last repeat of the phrase he is playing the entire riff that you heard back at the beginning of the song. After this, the drum riff changes again to something ungodly complicated that I am almost completely incapable of playing and singing at the same time, because the lyrical rhythm is in following the guitar in 4/4 while the drum riff continues on in 5/8 time. (The bass changes also, but it's just going from D to G to F in the same time signature and amount of notes; not nearly as drastic, although sometimes it actually goes up to B-flat, which is just cool.) What's going on here is...

As previously mentioned, the drums are playing in a 5/8 signature; the easiest part of this is the sticking of the hihat, which is just straight sixteenth notes all the way through. The snare drum patern is also quite easy: it's played once on the 5 of each measure. the bass drum, meanwhile, is playing the same rhythm of four sixteenth notes that Justin is playing on his bass guitar. However, the two of them are playing in rather different time signatures, the result being that for every time Danny plays the patern, Justin plays it twice and then one note more. SO they start in sync but rapidly go out of it--but it's all very musical and exciting and rott. Trying to keep a 5/8 signature over the bass's 3/8 AND the vocal/guitar's 4/4 is hard enough, but there's one more wrinkle in this that makes this section a nightmare if you're trying to concentrate on anything other than the drumming; though I said, earlier, that the sticking of the hihat was the easiest part, the foot patern is probably the hardest part. Since the stick is tapping sixteenth notes, you must open it precisely the length of one sixteenth note and then close it again before the second one; this requires precise control of the foot to be able to lift up and push down exactly the right amount, lest you open it too early or close it too late. What's worse, is that the notes that the open hats fall on--again, durring a 10/16 sziganture--are 1, 3, 6, 8. So while one arm is dotting out sixteenth notes, the other arm is hitting the snare on teh fifth eighth note, the right foot is thudding out four sixteenth notes at the beginning of each measure--while the vocals are singing in 4/4 and the bass is playing in 3/8, your left foot has to be: up down up down down up down up down down.

As you can see, the drums in this song are quite complex; Danny gets two solos which, while i did not bore you all with them here, rest assured they are quite difficult to play. I am a drummer. I am already going to fall in olve with any song that has difficult drumming. On top of that, there's fun with numbbers in the Fibonacci sequence, as previously mentioned; one phrase is in three different time signatures which adds up to the 17th step in the sequence, the vocal melodies as previously mentioned, as well as: 5+3 (the two dominant signatures durring the bridge)=8; 5+8=13. WHile i have no doubt that this was unintended durring hte creation of the song, it's still damn cool. On top of that, the lyrics contain nuggets such as: "There is so much more that beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities", "Reaching out ot embrace the random; reaching out ot embrace whatever may come. Embrace my desire to: feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widdow; to feel enspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty", "With my feet upon the ground I lose myself between the sound and open wide to suck it in, I feel it move across my skin. I'm reachin' up, and reachin' out; I'm reachin' for the random or whatever will bewilder me. We'll ride the spiral to the end, we may just go where no one's been. SPiral out; keep going." It's hard to argue with the good-ness of lyrics like these, and I think it's important in a musical world full of people with a morbid fascination with death, killing people, and writing song after song after boring, repetative song about such to take a moment and remember that life is worth living for. That Tool can make a song that has just as many "loud" moments as any run-of-the-mill murder death kill hate destroy metal band yet talk about such a joyful thing as transendence is what makes them one of my favorit bands and this song my favorit song of all time. Thank you and goodnight.

by Big Pussy Bonpensiero » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:24 pm

I'll fuckin' shoot you rat-assed motherfucking cocksuckers in the fuckin' face.

Big Pussy

by Biggie Smalls » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:11 pm

all y'all best be shuttin' yo nerdy cracker mouths.

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