[quote="hygraed"]How easy is it to get native Unix apps running under OSX?[/quote]

Usually really easy.

Hell, usually a port already exists in Fink.

Bruce

[quote="bruce"]
P.S. In short, I dunno. If I were a newbie who wanted a graphical interface with a non-sucky, smells-like-Unix OS under it, I'd be using a Mac. In fact, I'm one of the hoariest Linux guys out there, and my preferred desktop is, um, a Mac.
[/quote]

Personally, I run a Mac for "personal" stuff (iTunes and other media activities, mostly) and Linux for everything else. I really love Linux for basic computing needs, like mail and web browsing and stuff, but it's got nothing on the iHome apps that Apple ships. Thank heavens for KVM switches.

--Matt

[quote="hygraed"]How easy is it to get native Unix apps running under OSX?[/quote]

Really, really easy.

The Fink project is essentially just Debian's apt-get ported to OS X, with a decent repository. I haven't used it in a while (since I got an actual Linux machine in my cube at work), but it was certainly the bee's knees a couple years back.

http://www.finkproject.org/

--Matt

FTR< VIsta's quite a good opperating system. But, at hte same time, I can't really see any particular advantage for you to use it over Linux. I just blythly recommend it over everything else anyway because the extreme, extreme minority that makes up mac and linux users cannot stand to be made obsolescent and it makes up for all of their whining. Don't get me wrong--XP pre service pack II was as big a nightmare as everything else they'd produced since DOS (with the noteable exception of 2000, which was good, and ME, which was far worse) and they pretty much desrved everything they got pree-2004 or so, and I don't really have a problem with the linux people. Their model no doubt makes for some quite fine software, though it also makes accountability a bit harder if something breaks spectacularly. (Nobody makes a screenreader for Linux. How surprising is that? Answer: not at all surprising.) IT's the mac people I particularly enjoy pissing off, these days. They're a lot of fun. Seriously, I don't get how someone can be so warped as to accuse *me* of being a fanboy while ignoring the fact that Apple and Windows both release patches all the time and that Steve Jobs is working himself into a multimedia superstar. Christ, at least Microsoft keeps their business shit businesslike.

[quote="saintlupus"]Why is it that a bunch of penniless hackers can put together something like Debian, which immediately finds and configures all of my hardware properly, and yet the largest personal computer software company on Earth can't make something that detects an ancient onboard modem properly, let alone any of the reasonably modern hardware?[/quote]

Man, usually XP is pretty good about this sort of thing, too. In the 98 days I used to have a CD wallet filled with drivers for things and devices that I encountered. There was a "Velocity" video card that we used at work and each card came with a disc. There were hundreds of them around. But man, should you lose it, good luck, because Velocity got bought by someone who got bought by 3dfx, which I think got bought by someone and those drivers are nowhere to be found.


[quote]I've heard good things about Ubuntu, and its user forums, but I can't offer any firsthand advice. [/quote]

They sent me a free CD because they are awesome. It says something like, "Ubuntu. Linux for human beings." I don't know why, but that cracks me up. I'm going to put it on a machine one of these days, it's just very low in the queue.

Additionally, I use Unix all the time at work and it's the only way a keep a separation from work and home. Otherwise, I think I'd crack up. I expect that we'll all be moving to some distro of Linux around here sooner or later (upon an edit, I should mention that I live with Vitriola, because otherwise what I am saying here makes little sense) because there is nothing compelling in Vista and unless I get it for free I'm not going to bother. From what I understand about Ubuntu, there is little to think that Vitriola wouldn't be able to pick it up quickly, if not be able to install it out right if she chose.

[quote name="hygraed"]How easy is it to get native Unix apps running under OSX?[/quote]

I, too, am curious of this!

How easy is it to get native Unix apps running under OSX?

[quote="Vitriola"]Unless I'm missing something? A beginner forum? Anyone?[/quote]

WILL GIVE LINUX LESSONS FOR HEAD.

Bruce

P.S. In short, I dunno. If I were a newbie who wanted a graphical interface with a non-sucky, smells-like-Unix OS under it, I'd be using a Mac. In fact, I'm one of the hoariest Linux guys out there, and my preferred desktop is, um, a Mac.

A good way to get a basic familiarity with the command line might be the O'Reilly LPIC study guide. Title is "LPI Linux Certification In A Nutshell." Not useful for graphical apps, though.

<s>Complaining.</s>

Wait, I got a better one.

"Where's Doug when I need him?"

Lunch!

Where's Doug when I need him?

[quote="Vitriola"]If you or someone could ever tell me how a true beginner can navigate all the weird things Linux does, I'd switch in a second. The last time I tried it, downloading and then finding the file for a new desktop theme was so impossible that I didn't even try anything else. Seriously, it puts new files so deep into the tree that it's impossible to locate, ever again. I'd love to use it. Everyone else is too up in their own experience to help a new user. Wtf. Not at all user friendly for a beginner. Unless I'm missing something? A beginner forum? Anyone?[/quote]

I've heard good things about Ubuntu, and its user forums, but I can't offer any firsthand advice. The only way I've ever seen someone successfully become comfortable with Linux is the way I did it; find someone who uses it as their primary OS, and bother them with questions until they want to smash you with a brick. The learning curve is like the goddamned Matterhorn.

Once you get up there, though, the view rocks.

--Matt

No, you nailed it.

If you or someone could ever tell me how a true beginner can navigate all the weird things Linux does, I'd switch in a second. The last time I tried it, downloading and then finding the file for a new desktop theme was so impossible that I didn't even try anything else. Seriously, it puts new files so deep into the tree that it's impossible to locate, ever again. I'd love to use it. Everyone else is too up in their own experience to help a new user. Wtf. Not at all user friendly for a beginner. Unless I'm missing something? A beginner forum? Anyone?

So, for the first time in a long time, I'm installing Windows. I've got a Dell laptop that I normally run Linux on; I'm replacing the stock hard drive with a larger one, so I figured I'd put a small Windows XP partition on there as well in case I ever need it. Hell, the machine came with the license, I might as well use it.

Why is it that a bunch of penniless hackers can put together something like Debian, which immediately finds and configures all of my hardware properly, and yet the largest personal computer software company on Earth can't make something that detects an ancient onboard modem properly, let alone any of the reasonably modern hardware?

Vent, vent, vent.

--Matt