Car MATH

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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Car MATH

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Thu May 14, 2020 8:13 am

Got this spam from the dealer I bought my car from:
Our records indicate you purchased your 2018 Subaru WRX Base for $25,550.00. Our sales associate has created this personalized trade up offer just for you.

This could be your new 2020 Subaru WRX Base equipped with Apple CarPlayTM & Android AutoTM Integration, and of course the confidence that comes with standard Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive for less than you might expect.^
2020 Subaru WRX Base
NEW PURCHASE PRICE*
$10,356
WITH TRADE
COMPARED TO PREVIOUS PURCHASE OF $25,550.00
OFFER EXPIRES: 6/1/2020
I owe $12,500 on my car, so it seems like what would happen (if they weren't lying about this, which of course they are) is that they'd give me the new car for $10,356 and then I have a 2020 car for that, plus my original loan, which is $12,500 so $22,856. Which seems like a nice price for a brand new car of that type. But then I'm starting over on the loan again.

Has anyone ever done a deal like this?
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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Flack
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Flack » Thu May 14, 2020 9:08 am

Carfax lists a 2018 WRX Base for $22,630. If you sold your car for that, that gives you a profit of $10,130. So, it looks like the deal they're offering you is better than that. I'm sure between their financing and whatever hidden fees they have, they come out ahead somehow.
"Jack Flack always escapes." -Davey Osborne

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Billy Mays
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Billy Mays » Thu May 14, 2020 9:34 am

If that's their starting offer then you should at least go to the dealership and see if you can work them down to an even-steven trade.

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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Thu May 14, 2020 10:51 am

OK. I did a good job not eating food in my car and there is nothing better than sitting on the side of the road eating a couple chicken wings in peace. There's a price to be paid, however. But they probably have some kid that does details.
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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Tdarcos
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Tdarcos » Thu May 14, 2020 12:46 pm

As it turns out, I happened to watch some very interesting YouTube videos by a guy that used to sell cars, now he teaches people how not to get ripped off by dealers and others. Very entertaining and informative.

I'll give you some of his points (plus some of mine); if you're interested in watching his videos, I'll go look up the username.
  1. There are three transactions involved in buying a new car, only one of these has to be done at the dealer. These are:
    1. Purchase new car
    2. Sell old car
    3. finance new car
    You should only do either or both of the second two there if the dealer offer is more advantageous to you. Just remember, the dealer (and the salesperson) is only interested in their profit, they have no concern about whether the deal is right (or good) for you.
  2. Selling your car consists of either a sale to the dealer (with a reduction in the purchase price) or to someone else. This one is my own thought: Go to CarMax first and get their estimate. This way, if the dealer lowballs you, you'll know it. Plus, you could always sell it to them anyway, then use the check to pay down your loan. Also ckeck KBB or newspapers to get an idea of the retail resale value so you know whether it might be worth selling at retail.
  3. Selling a car to another person may be a hassle, but if the difference between the wholesale value (what CarMax or the dealer will offer) and a reasonable retail resale is several thousand dollars, that's money you're putting in the dealer's pocket. Let it stay in yours.
  4. Keep your mouth shut! Every piece of information you give the salesman about your plans gives him/her a new way to screw you over. The less he knows, the less it will cost you.
  5. Never tell them you're paying cash (or have outside financing). The price just went up and your negotiating stance got weaker. The big money the dealer makes is their commission from the finance company.
  6. Do not tell them you've already agreed to sell the car at retail or CarMax. This means you're desperate to buy, and guess which of you now is the sheep and which is the barber.
  7. Car keys often use transponders. Some replacement keys or car fobs can cost over $500, even %1,000. Ask your own insurer what it would cost to add key insurance, then notice the dealer's price. Also, what is the price for a new key? I've heard radio announcements from a locksmith that sells duplicate keys they guarantee will fit the lock and have the correct transpnder for "hundreds less." This might mean the locksmith sells you a perfectly good replacement for $200 vs. Dealer $995. Optionally, buying a duplicate key in advance might be cheaper than key insurance.
  8. Discuss financing after the price is negotiated. Any time they want to talk about financing, steer them with, "we'll discuss that after the price is nailed down." This way, you know what it's really going to cost.
  9. Always be willing to walk away. You are negotiating to acquire two tons of metal that will rust and fall apart eventually, not the future mother of your children! Do not get emotionally involved in the new car transaction; you can bet the salesperson won't.
  10. Decline offers to sit down until you sign the sales contract. The longer you remain standing, the longer you retain the most powerful negotiating tool you have: to turn and walk out the door. Once you sit down, you get comfortable and it's easier to charge you more through unnecessary extras.
  11. Everything extra they want to offer costs more than if you bought it 3rd party. One example was a roof luggage carrying rack added to a car. Definitely useful for the guy who travels a lot, or his family does. Dealer price: $800. Same rack on Amazon: $99.95 (mounting hardware included). To save 700 bucks you can buy a $20 drill at IKEA and drill eight 1/2" holes.
  12. Gap insurance. If you own a new car with a $25,000 loan on it, and still owe $22,000, and you're in an accident, the insurance might decide it's totalled, and only worth $15,500. You're on the hook for the other $6,500. The dealer might offer it; they will charge you an arm and your leg, and not the one I gave up. Call an insurance company ahead of time and ask what a gap policy costs; it's going to be less than what the dealer charges. However, if you get gap insurance, do not get it from your current liability carrier. Example: you get into an accident, your car with $30,000 remaining on the loans, $20,000 book value, and $25,000 in damage is therefore totaled. Your insurance would cover the $20,000 book value, and gap coverage the other $10,000. When it's your insurer on the hook for the gap, instead, they pay the $25,000 in repairs, saving them $5,000. You still have to pay the $30,000 in remaining payments on what is a possibly unsafe vehicle with heavy damage. Get your gap insurance from somewhere else.
  13. Decline almost every extra. You don't need the VIN number etched into the windows; thieves either are joyriders or a chop shop that will piece it off and won't care about the windows. Nitrogen in tires? Air is 70% nitrogen anyway; you aren't driving the Indy 500, you won't get enough extra gas mileage to cover the (enormous) cost. If you really want it, Merchant's Tire & Auto or similar place will do it for 20 bucks.
  14. Your car costs 4 things.
    1. The car
    2. shipping to dealer
    3. sales tax
    4. Title and registration
    these are the legitimate charges; anything else is extra you probably don't want to pay and probably don't need to. Also check the window sticker. If the invoice price includes shipping you don't want to pay twice.
This is getting long enough I'll discuss financing separately. If there is interest.
"I said, ooh, I'm blinded by the lights
No, I can't sleep until I feel your touch."
-The Weeknd, Blinding Lights

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pinback
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Re: Car MATH

Post by pinback » Thu May 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Alright, we're gonna have to talk about base or line limit restrictions for you again.
Above all else... We shall go on... And continue!

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AArdvark
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Re: Car MATH

Post by AArdvark » Thu May 14, 2020 2:54 pm

I just skipped it

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The Happiness Engine
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Re: Car MATH

Post by The Happiness Engine » Thu May 14, 2020 3:33 pm

That 2018 is going to last 20 years. You can trade-in and "reset" your loan but they are going to screw you on the numbers and book a sale off of it. So the question is do you want anything a 2020 WRX has to offer or are you happy with what you got?

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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Thu May 14, 2020 4:09 pm

The Happiness Engine wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:33 pm
That 2018 is going to last 20 years. You can trade-in and "reset" your loan but they are going to screw you on the numbers and book a sale off of it. So the question is do you want anything a 2020 WRX has to offer or are you happy with what you got?
The 2018 was in the shop for a month. There was a bad .... SPROCKET, I think. If I were more of a car guy I'd have this down. So part of me wonders if I got sold something that isn't going to last as long as it should. But good point, they won't not try to screw me if I go over there.
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Thu May 14, 2020 4:18 pm

Selling a car to another person may be a hassle, but if the difference between the wholesale value (what CarMax or the dealer will offer) and a reasonable retail resale is several thousand dollars, that's money you're putting in the dealer's pocket. Let it stay in yours.
"May be a hassle."

I think Flack has a great story about the guy he sold his last Subaru to. Something like how the kid gave the Flacks a check and said he'd be calling the next morning to discuss in fine detail the interworkings of the car or something. Let me see if he posted it here, it's great.

...

Aaaagh, I can't find it and the search is broken here. Do you remember this incident, Flack? It was great.

I have two pieces of photography equipment that together are probably worth $500. A lens and a light. I TRIED to sell the lens, it went to California and came back. People are so so so awful out in the world now, Tdarcos, when it comes to buying things from regular people. The entitlement is off the charts.
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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AArdvark
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Re: Car MATH

Post by AArdvark » Fri May 15, 2020 2:59 pm

they are trying to faux-lease you here. Dont do it

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Billy Mays
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Billy Mays » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:08 am

Billy Mays wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:34 am
If that's their starting offer then you should at least go to the dealership and see if you can work them down to an even-steven trade.
This is my favorite thing I have ever written in my entire life.

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Billy Mays
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:23 pm

Billy Mays wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:08 am
Billy Mays wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:34 am
If that's their starting offer then you should at least go to the dealership and see if you can work them down to an even-steven trade.
This is my favorite thing I have ever written in my entire life.
Ok, I promise that I'll stop bumping this but gosh dang getting to come back and reread my post here is nothing short of a reward when I need a little pick me up.

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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:25 pm

Can you explain it to me?
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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Billy Mays
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:52 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:25 pm
Can you explain it to me?
I'll do my best but even I don't fully grasp the magnitude of what I've done here. I just keep peeling back more and more layers and it is all heavily based on mental imagery.

So we all understand the basics of negotiations: one side starts off really high and the other side counters with something really low and hopefully both parties can meet somewhere in the middle where everyone is happy.

Now your dealership opened negotiations to you with the spam invite...Honestly, I typed out a whole bunch of stuff and none of it was even remotely coherent. I failed you in this one simple task. This joke will just have to be mine and mine alone for now. Sorry.

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Tdarcos
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Tdarcos » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:00 am

How about this: Anything advertised is being sold for the dealer's benefit, not yours.
"I said, ooh, I'm blinded by the lights
No, I can't sleep until I feel your touch."
-The Weeknd, Blinding Lights

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Billy Mays
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Re: Car MATH

Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:50 am

Tdarcos wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:00 am
How about this: Anything advertised is being sold for the dealer's benefit, not yours.
No, sorry, that is definitely not it.

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