DOOM Eternal

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Jizaboz
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DOOM Eternal

Post by Jizaboz » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:26 pm

Someone insisted on giving me money via PayPal for broccoli instead of cash, so I had some PP balance to spare.

Installing to SSD drive via Steam now.

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by AArdvark » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:40 pm

Funny, one of the Bridgeport guys left work at 11AM this morning to play that game. I found out later that his brother called in so HE could play it first.

What is it, Pokemon in the dark with monsters?

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by RealNC » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:54 pm

AArdvark wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:40 pm
What is it, Pokemon in the dark with monsters?
It's a Doom-themed video game for millennials. You can't die and it kind of plays itself at times.

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by Jizaboz » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:31 pm


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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:56 pm

Is there save anywhere or did they do checkpoints?

Just tried to play Doom 2016. First I had the issue where there was a black screen and it wouldn't load. They have instructions on how to fix this as the first message in the Steam forums. How the living Christ have they not made it so I don't have to add shit to LAUNCH SETTINGS myself? Unbelievable.

I restarted my computer and the game at least loaded. Started to play. Got the chainsaw, had a nice fight. Tried to figure out some puzzle with a train, got killed by the train. Loaded.... I have to go re-do that fight again. I'm fucking sorry this is literally why checkpoints are fucking stupid. I'm done with Doom 2016 forever.

I assume there's checkpoint bullshit in the new one? Worm hated it so I will never get it, but I was curious.
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by pinback » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:37 pm

RealNC wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:54 pm
AArdvark wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:40 pm
What is it, Pokemon in the dark with monsters?
It's a Doom-themed video game for millennials. You can't die and it kind of plays itself at times.
I don't understand this. I just played the first level, and it was like being back in the middle of DOOM 2016 -- you already have the chaingun and double-jump, so you're ready to go. Other than that, it felt like the same, smooth, frantic gorefest that I loved about 2016. Except glory-kill is now "E" instead of "F", and chainsaw is "C" instead of "G". Comfortable changes, but took a minute to get used to from a 2016 veteran.

I think people love to complain, and the ones that do probably didn't like DOOM 2016. Or never played it. I dunno.

I see from a Caltrops thread that Worm hates it. That's always a good sign.
Last edited by pinback on Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by pinback » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:40 pm

Worm hated it so I will never get it, but I was curious.
Heh, I should have read this first. Aligning your videogaming with Worm's taste is I think the worst decision I've ever seen you make, other than choosing pop-punk as your preferred music genre.
I'm done with Doom 2016 forever.
I don't get it. There are checkpoints, but good ones. Every time you clear a room, you get a checkpoint. Save-scumming your way through these dances ruins the thrill. EDIT: Eternal also adds little "1up" secrets which let you keep going once if you die before a checkpoint. Kinda cute, but relatively useless.

Maybe your and Worm's tastes coincide. Oh well. Whaddya gonna do.
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:08 pm

pinback wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:40 pm
Worm hated it so I will never get it, but I was curious.
Heh, I should have read this first. Aligning your videogaming with Worm's taste is I think the worst decision I've ever seen you make, other than choosing pop-punk as your preferred music genre.
I'm done with Doom 2016 forever.
I don't get it. There are checkpoints, but good ones. Every time you clear a room, you get a checkpoint. Save-scumming your way through these dances ruins the thrill. EDIT: Eternal also adds little "1up" secrets which let you keep going once if you die before a checkpoint. Kinda cute, but relatively useless.

Maybe your and Worm's tastes coincide. Oh well. Whaddya gonna do.
I want to stre--

So, when I was actually PLAYING new shit in Doom 2016 it was/is amazing. It's great! It WANTS TO BE PLAYED. I love killing a guy and then harvesting health. If they had thought of that in the original Doom nobody would question it. Where I got frustrated - aside from the shit their publisher pulled, which, whatever, it's Bethesda - is that check points are universally terrible and have never been implemented correctly. I cleared a long room after getting the chainsaw. The game plays an audio file after clearing the room to say that there is no longer a threat of zombie infestation.

But it didn't save.

Literally all the fucksticks left at id had to do was:

PlayAudioFile(10);
InitiateCheckPointSave();

Instead of

PlayAudioFile(10);

Indefensible. Not defensible!!!!!!!!!
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:08 pm

How does one defend that????
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by Billy Mays » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:42 am

I have to take ICJ's side on this.

I'm currently playing Dragon Age 2 and checkpoints frequently cause the game to crash, and what's worse is that they plug them in to every post boss cut scene so you have to fight everything all over again. The EA reps were probably like "you know when players need an arbitrary checkpoint the most in a game that basically allows you to save whenever you want?" After the fucking boss fight...that was their answer.

Fortunately, a hero programmer at Bioware implemented an option to turn off auto saves which fixes the issue.

I was looking into getting those new Doom games but now it's going to be a big no thank you, I'm not going through that all over again. Checkpoints are just terrible, no matter what game you're playing.

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by Casual Observer » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:48 am

pinback wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:37 pm

I see from a Caltrops thread that Worm hates it. That's always a good sign.
Worm's back? That's awesome, I missed him. I was way too rude to him when he was here, I regret that.

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by RealNC » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:20 am

pinback wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:37 pm
RealNC wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:54 pm
It's a Doom-themed video game for millennials. You can't die and it kind of plays itself at times.
I don't understand this. I just played the first level, and it was like being back in the middle of DOOM 2016 -- you already have the chaingun and double-jump, so you're ready to go. Other than that, it felt like the same, smooth, frantic gorefest that I loved about 2016. Except glory-kill is now "E" instead of "F", and chainsaw is "C" instead of "G". Comfortable changes, but took a minute to get used to from a 2016 veteran.
I did play through Doom 4 multiple times. Great game if you do one tweak to it. Just because it's a Doom-themed video game for millennials doesn't mean it's a bad game.

The tweak is to unbind the default glory kill key and bind it to some way out of reach key, and to disable the glory kill enemy hilight. This disables the infinite HP/ammo cheat that the glory kill system was designed to be. By default, the game is designed to shower you with HP and ammo pickups when you are low on HP and ammo. It is borderline impossible to die. But disabling this system required me to actually pay attention, be better prepared when going into battle, and keep a close eye on my chainsaw fuel as it is now the only way to prevent me from running out of ammo. Once I did that, the game went from just being a good game to being a great game.

Games made for millennials are generally designed like that. The player should be prevented at all times from dying because this hurts their ego. At no point should the game make you realize that you can't be an expert at something you only just started doing. Even when you pick up a new game you never played before, it should make you feel like an expert within the first 20 minutes of gameplay. Othwerise Kotaku is going to write a bad article about your game and how it is a relic that belongs in the 90s and nobody should buy it.

I have not played Eternal yet. I hope it's still possible to play it without the glory kill system.

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by pinback » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:43 am

RealNC wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:20 am
pinback wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:37 pm
RealNC wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:54 pm
It's a Doom-themed video game for millennials. You can't die and it kind of plays itself at times.
I don't understand this. I just played the first level, and it was like being back in the middle of DOOM 2016 -- you already have the chaingun and double-jump, so you're ready to go. Other than that, it felt like the same, smooth, frantic gorefest that I loved about 2016. Except glory-kill is now "E" instead of "F", and chainsaw is "C" instead of "G". Comfortable changes, but took a minute to get used to from a 2016 veteran.
I did play through Doom 4 multiple times. Great game if you do one tweak to it. Just because it's a Doom-themed video game for millennials doesn't mean it's a bad game.

The tweak is to unbind the default glory kill key and bind it to some way out of reach key, and to disable the glory kill enemy hilight. This disables the infinite HP/ammo cheat that the glory kill system was designed to be. By default, the game is designed to shower you with HP and ammo pickups when you are low on HP and ammo. It is borderline impossible to die. But disabling this system required me to actually pay attention, be better prepared when going into battle, and keep a close eye on my chainsaw fuel as it is now the only way to prevent me from running out of ammo. Once I did that, the game went from just being a good game to being a great game.

Games made for millennials are generally designed like that. The player should be prevented at all times from dying because this hurts their ego.
That's a really weak take, man. "Fuckin' millennials" is getting very, very weak. I LAUDED the glory kill system in my review. It's challenging enough as it is. I think it's a brilliant way to keep the action going. It's plenty challenging particularly on higher difficulty levels, requiring almost constant movement and situational awareness. Having to stop and reload (the game) every five seconds instead of continuing the dance, man, I'm almost 50, I played all the old DOOM games. I'm okay with this.

Grumbling about millennials makes us old guys look bad. Stop it.
Last edited by pinback on Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by pinback » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:44 am

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:08 pm
How does one defend that????
I do not recall any moment where the "room-cleared" announcement was made and there was not immediately a checkpoint. You appear to have encountered a bug. Please open a ticket.
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by AArdvark » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:08 am

Remember when games were fun?

You think it's because we all started out in arcades and expected to be killed in three minutes or less no matter what the game? And if you DID make it to a new screen that you've never seen before it made your week.

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by pinback » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:53 am

Is that what this place is now? A bunch of crotchety old farts who've decided they're not going to enjoy things anymore?

Count me out, bros. A pathetic display.
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by RealNC » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:27 am

pinback wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:43 am
That's a really weak take, man. "Fuckin' millennials" is getting very, very weak. I LAUDED the glory kill system in my review. It's challenging enough as it is. I think it's a brilliant way to keep the action going.
It was the opposite for me. It stopped the action when performing glory kills. They're little cutscenes where the game kills an enemy for you and this ruins the flow of the gameplay. It also showers you with hp and ammo pickups because the game doesn't want you to die even if you don't pay attention and run into bad situations unprepared. You can go into every battle without preparing for it because if you're low, you just fill up again with glory kills.

I just don't like glory kills. They make the game feel condescending and patronizing and this is something I'm seeing a lot in games targeted at millenials.
It's plenty challenging particularly on higher difficulty levels, requiring almost constant movement and situational awareness. Having to stop and reload (the game) every five seconds instead of continuing the dance, man, I'm almost 50, I played all the old DOOM games. I'm okay with this.
I didn't have this problem. At most I died every couple minutes in tough battles, but never every five seconds.
Grumbling about millennials makes us old guys look bad. Stop it.
But... but... they're little shits who cry out "this game fucking sucks!" when they die in a game they only JUST started playing which forces game designers to cater to them.

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by pinback » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:30 am

RealNC wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:27 am
pinback wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:43 am
That's a really weak take, man. "Fuckin' millennials" is getting very, very weak. I LAUDED the glory kill system in my review. It's challenging enough as it is. I think it's a brilliant way to keep the action going.
It was the opposite for me. It stopped the action when performing glory kills. They're little cutscenes where the game kills an enemy for you and this ruins the flow of the gameplay. It also showers you with hp and ammo pickups because the game doesn't want to you die. You can go into every battle without preparing for it because if you're low, you just fill up again with glory kills.
That's right. That's great. I love it. I don't feel condescended to, I felt like -- as I've said and has been repeated -- the game wants you to play it. I get your point, my reaction was just diametrically opposite. I've got tons of games, many that I enjoy immensely, that always want to kill you. I'm okay with one of them cheering you on.
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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by AArdvark » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:39 am

For those of me that are trying to understand this...A glory kill is a short cutscene where you watch something die in a spectacular manner, is that it? Would it have been better is they could include a glory kill without watching a snort movie?

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Re: DOOM Eternal

Post by pinback » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:01 am

These "cutscenes" and "short movies" you people are talking about range from about one to three seconds in length depending on the circumstance, and do not interrupt the flow of the game in any appreciable manner whatsoever. They are in first person. It is as if you pressed "punch" in a FPS, but instead of just a canned "punch" animation, the animation was of you jamming your fist up its ass and ripping out its guts. That sort of thing.

They are neither cutscenes nor short movies.
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