I'm out

[Billy Mays]

The only person I respect less than you, is myself.

I'm just saying that if you want everyone here to feel sorry for you, you're ultimate goal here no doubt, then you would have an easier time of achieving that if you weren't so openly hostile with people.

[Tdarcos]

I am told this quarantine is temporary, and will be effective for two weeks. I've been moved to room 210. This is a single room, of course.

He started off in 123A on arrival, got transferred to 240A a single room after the amputation due to swearing,

No, they moved me because I was in the hospital for a week having my leg shortened, and in the interim my bed was given to someone else. Well, it wasn't "my" bed, it belonged to the place, and they didn't "give" it to the next guy, they rented it, but you know what I mean.

somehow ended up in 330B next to a guy running a high fever,

I originally had a roommate named Mr. Wilson. He got mad because (1) a guy down the hall named Don kept taking back his clothes that Mr. Wilson was stealing from Don's room and Mr. Wilson was putting in his closet; (2) Mr. Wilson was getting into fights with Don so bad he had to call the police. Mr Wilson thought Don was stealing Mr. Wilson's wife (who isn't even present here).

Mr. Wilson was moved to the 2nd floor, and my roommate is a Mr. Cooper. When I mentioned to the social worker who was interviewing him, that she would be Hangin' With Mr. Cooper, she didn't get the joke.

and then got sent to a single room 210 for the quarantine.

Also, he has to order his crackers online from Amazon because the staff are not providing him with any.

At the time I didn't have my computer or tablet, and could not use my phone. However, they brought a box from my room that had the Ritz Minis cheese cracker sandwiches, so I could manage. (Damn, you would not believe how much of a disappointment Ritz crackers without salt are.)

[Billy Mays]

Damn, you would not believe how much of a disappointment Ritz crackers without salt are.

This is a joke, right? Nobody would add more salt to an already heavily salted snack?

[Jizaboz]

Damn, you would not believe how much of a disappointment Ritz crackers without salt are.

This is a joke, right? Nobody would add more salt to an already heavily salted snack?

They don't use as much salt on the mini crackers that make those sandwiches!

[Billy Mays]

Damn, you would not believe how much of a disappointment Ritz crackers without salt are.

This is a joke, right? Nobody would add more salt to an already heavily salted snack?

They don't use as much salt on the mini crackers that make those sandwiches!

I just did some quick research and discovered that a box of those contains approximately 61% of your daily sodium allowance which means he would still have about 1/3 of a teaspoon of salt to divvy up among them if he was willing to fast for the remainder of the day and exercise.

[Tdarcos]

Damn, you would not believe how much of a disappointment Ritz crackers without salt are.

This is a joke, right? Nobody would add more salt to an already heavily salted snack?

No joke. It's not that one of them adds more salt, it's that they're taking it away. Ritz cheese Cracker Sandwihes have regular sized, regular salted Ritz crackers surrounding cheddar cheese. Ritz Minis are 1/2 or 1/4 size unsalted Ritz crackers surrounding cheddar cheese. The crackers tend to be slightly sweet, when I'm expecting savory, as the full sized ones are.

[Finsternis]

You could start with a kind word.

You're absolutely right, Billy. And I'm happy to do that. But I've found in my life that offering sympathy and condolences to disabled people is a tricky business. Some people really appreciate it, but some people feel it borders on pity and just want to be treated like everyone else. It can be a fine line.

While I honestly can't say I know Paul well personally, I've interacted with him online off and on since circa 1992 when we "met" on Pinback's dialup BBS (what was it called again? so long ago...). The only thing I can say for sure is his online persona has not changed a bit. There's no doubt that he's a colorful person. Though we clashed frequently in the past, that was a very long time ago and I know I've grown and changed. I certainly do respect his clarity of writing and his sense of logic - he reminds me of myself sometimes, partly because of that and partly because we are both dicks from time to time. But even though we often disagree, I think we share an affinity for reasoning and clarity of thought.

I'm very sad to hear about his current circumstances and would be willing to help him by sending him occasional gifts if he asks specifically for something. I don't know him well enough to be able to guess what random surprise things he might enjoy. Being disabled myself, though nowhere near the profound degree Paul is, I know how depressing it can be. I can only imagine his current environment only adds greatly to that. The care provided by Medicaid sucks, but I guess the only silver lining is it beats being homeless and shitting yourself in a cardboard box.

My only clear suggestion for improvement , Paul, is to help yourself by being kind and friendly to your caretakers. For example, not swearing so much. Yes, it theoretically shouldn't matter, but it seems to annoy them, and why give them reasons to dislike you when you depend on them and their care is so bad already? Though I'm sure you feel like it, and it may well be justified, It's not as if you absolutely must swear, at least not so much. In fact, it may be worth your while to actively be nice to them. Most people who work in those jobs get no respect and it's an very tough job to begin with, so kind words might go a long way. And in your situation, having just one or two friends on the staff could make a world of difference in your comfort. Even if you loathe them, for purely mercenary reasons I think it would be better for you to swallow your pride, say "please" and "thank you", ask them about themselves (everybody loves to talk about themselves!). You may not care for them that much personally but if it improves your comfort it seems wise. Most people are not actively cruel because they want to be. They aren't sadists. They are stuck in a shitty system just like you are, only they can walk and do other stuff. And, who knows? if you start treating them like people and not just mindless automatons to be cursed at, if you engage them and ask about them, make conversation, you may actually discover that at least some of them aren't so bad. Being a logical person, even you must admit it's theoretically possible.

Paul, if you need something specific, ask here and if I can afford it I might send it to you. I'm not rich but I'm not penniless either. Other than that, you have my sympathy (if you want it) for the bad turn of events you're experiencing. If all I can do is attempt to provide interesting and distracting conversation, then I'm glad you have at least this arena to talk in.

Be well!

[Finsternis]

Ritz cheese Cracker Sandwihes have regular sized, regular salted Ritz crackers surrounding cheddar cheese. Ritz Minis are 1/2 or 1/4 size unsalted Ritz crackers surrounding cheddar cheese.

You have a very different definition of "cheese" than I do.

[pinback]

Pinback's dialup BBS (what was it called again?

Bull & Finch Pub, baby! Without which (waves hands) none of this is happening!

[Finsternis]

Wow you have 14,000+ posts.

[pinback]

I'm very popular and well-liked. Go ahead, everyone, tell him.

[RetroRomper]

Second only to me.

[Billy Mays]

You're absolutely right, Billy.

You know it feels really good to finally have someone validate what I've been doing here for the last 4 years. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I'm very popular and well-liked. Go ahead, everyone, tell him.

The drunken obese guy who used to post here was a thousand times better, but you gotta do what's best for you at the end of the day.

[Tdarcos]

You could start with a kind word.

You're absolutely right, Billy. And I'm happy to do that. But I've found in my life that offering sympathy and condolences to disabled people is a tricky business. Some people really appreciate it, but some people feel it borders on pity and just want to be treated like everyone else. It can be a fine line.

On that point, I agree, A reasonable "Oh, sorry to hear that." for something like having a leg or a head amputated, is okay. Also, huge amounts of pity, combined with a copious amount of Srarburst, are also welcomed. Otherwise, I don't want their pity. (I will, however, always accept donations of Starburst, whether or not pity is included.)

Am I bothered by the fact I accept bribes? Of course; I am sickened and disgusted. Not of the fact I'm willing to accept bribes, anyone with less wealth than Bill Gates or Carlos Slim can be bribed. No, what sickened and disgusted me was that I can be bribed so cheaply!

While I honestly can't say I know Paul well personally, I've interacted with him online off and on since circa 1992 when we "met" on Pinback's dialup BBS (what was it called again? so long ago...). The only thing I can say for sure is his online persona has not changed a bit.

I'm trying to remember you. There was me; Ben; Michael Raugh, who became the sysop of his own board either before or after Ben discontinued his (or the reverse, Ben started his board when Michael decided to stop running his); some woman married to a guy who was not a member of the board; Larry Trask, who was her former lover; and perhaps one, maybe two others. Maybe I haven't changed much, it seems like Ben has gotten a bit ruder. But I don't remember a Finsternis, although it's been almost 30 years, I may have forgotten.

There's no doubt that he's a colorful person. Though we clashed frequently in the past, that was a very long time ago and I know I've grown and changed. I certainly do respect his clarity of writing and his sense of logic - he reminds me of myself sometimes, partly because of that and partly because we are both dicks from time to time.

Speak for yourself, Richard.

But even though we often disagree, I think we share an affinity for reasoning and clarity of thought.

"Reasonable people can disagree over issues, otherwise we'd never need appeals courts."

I'm very sad to hear about his current circumstances and would be willing to help him by sending him occasional gifts if he asks specifically for something.

I take pride in my independence. Once I had a guaranteed incme, I moved out on my own, no longer under someone else's thumb. Only problem was, I had to wait till I ended up in a wheelchair to do it.

I don't know him well enough to be able to guess what random surprise things he might enjoy. Being disabled myself, though nowhere near the profound degree Paul is, I know how depressing it can be.

I am sorry to hear that. Let me know if you have any minor issues like a head amputation or something like that, maybe I can offer assistance (I can offer it, whether I'd actually give anything is another story). Otherwise, let me offer you prayers, encoragement, sympathy, pity, and anything else that doesn't require I do anything or costs money.

I can only imagine his current environment only adds greatly to that. The care provided by Medicaid sucks, but I guess the only silver lining is it beats being homeless and shitting yourself in a cardboard box.

If you can move, there's always hope to do better. When you're effectively a quadriplegic, like I am, you realize in one way or another you're dependent on the charity of others for your very survival. Medicaid care might suck, but it's the very difference between "suck," and "dead."

My only clear suggestion for improvement , Paul, is to help yourself by being kind and friendly to your caretakers.

I am, and I have been. I try to remember to say "please," and I always say "thank you," unless the person has really been uncaring in treating me. Sometimes even then.

I never curse to the staff unless either they fuck up and hurt me or they've acted really stupid, and it's cursing in their presence. I never insult any member of the staff no matter what they have done.

One time an aide had a records cart, where the records are held in a stainless steel basket, on the cart. She moved the cart the wrong way, my leg was a little off the bed, and the cart "klonged" me on the knee. Immediately a string of obscenities poured out of me. Nothing had the wrd "you" included, I was mad at being hit, not mad at her personally; we both knew it was an accident, and nothing further was said about it.

Another time an aide klonged my knee with the table that goes over my bed. Same result, but in this case, it got the aide upset. I informed her that it wasn't personal, she'd accidentally struck me on the knee, did she think I wasn't going to respond to something that hurt?

For example, not swearing so much. Yes, it theoretically shouldn't matter, but it seems to annoy them, and why give them reasons to dislike you when you depend on them and their care is so bad already?

I don't know where the fuck this shitty idea that I fucking swear a whole goddam lot comes from. Probably some asshole who has been nothing but a dickwad all his motherfucking life.

Though I'm sure you feel like it, and it may well be justified, It's not as if you absolutely must swear, at least not so much. In fact, it may be worth your while to actively be nice to them. Most people who work in those jobs get no respect and it's an very tough job to begin with, so kind words might go a long way.

I have, and I do. Sometimes they'll ask me for something. If I've got extras, I'm willing to be generous. Like, I have a blister pack of 30 blue markers. One of the staff asked if she could have one. I said fine, just be careful opening it so you don't spill the others. She was.

Earlier, one of them asked if she could have one of the (medium size) bags of Starburst Flav-o-Reds Flack sent me. I had like half a jar and two bags; I said okay. I also warned her not to tell anybody, first because I don't want to look like a soft touch, and second, if Management finds out, they're not supposed to ask the residents for things, it doesn't matter how short on staff they are, she'll be on the street. I don't narc on people, so don't narc on yourself.

I think that helps with bonding, when you're a co-conspirator it can make it easier to be friends.

And in your situation, having just one or two friends on the staff could make a world of difference in your comfort.

I know, and I have. My roommate, Mr. Cooper, probably has mental issues or cognitive problems, he sometimes gets mad at the staff or balky over taking medications. One time he was so rude to the aide, she said she'd no longer cheek his blood pressure.

So when she came over to me, I mentioned the issue, how he's probably got head problems. I then said, "There's an expression, and I don't know how to say it nicer, so I just will. 'Don't let the bastards grind you down.' Just remember, whatever he says is just noises, when you let them get you mad, they win." I think that did make her feel a little better.

Even if you loathe them, for purely mercenary reasons I think it would be better for you to swallow your pride, say "please" and "thank you",

Which I routinely do. Pride is probably the most regular meal around here. Not as tasty as Starburst, though.

ask them about themselves (everybody loves to talk about themselves!). You may not care for them that much personally but if it improves your comfort it seems wise.

That's a good idea and I'll try to remember it.

Most people are not actively cruel because they want to be. They aren't sadists. They are stuck in a shitty system just like you are, only they can walk and do other stuff.

I have said to the staff, especially when they do something and I groan or cry out, where they say "sorry," that I understand. "Sometimes you are going to have to do things to treat me or to fix me where it is going to hurt, there is no way around it, and it has to be done. All I can do is soldier on and take it. It's not intentional,and it's unavoidable. But that doesn't mean I won't cry out in pain, groan or make noises.

"Look," I'd say, "I know you don't do a job like this because you want to hurt people, you do it because you like to help people and make them feel better. If you wanted to hurt people, you'd become a dominatrix." Most get the joke, and a few smile or laugh. I flirt with the staff sometimes, or do innocent innuendo, most say I'm a fun guy to work with.

I'm like a teapot, when I get issues of pain, I am not a stoic; I respond with cries. I don't store them up for later.

And, who knows? if you start treating them like people and not just mindless automatons to be cursed at, if you engage them and ask about them, make conversation, you may actually discover that at least some of them aren't so bad.

I know that. One of the songs I like to sing when I'm being bathed is Martin Page's In the House of Stone and Light because of the first three lines, and after I've been bathed a few times, the staff will eventually start singing along, especially the third line:
Oh Mount Kalas, uncover me
Come my restoration
Wash my body clean

Usually I'd sing the next four lines. Sometimes I'd change them so

I've been walking
Along a crooked path
Where the words have fallen
Broken me in half
becomes

I've been hopping
Along a crooked path
Where I met the surgeon
Cut my leg in half

Occasionally one of the aides would have to remove or apply the diaper, would say, "spread your legs," and I'd say to her, "usually a man says that to a woman." This would often get laughs, so sometimes they'd say something similar, like "open your legs,"" and I'd just snicker, so then they'd start saying, "you know what to do!"

When one of them comes over, and says, "I want to take your blood pressure<" I respond, "You can't do that, I need my blood pressure! You can check my bolood pressure, and if it's too high, you can take what's extra." Same if they wanted to "take" my temperature.

Being a logical person, even you must admit it's theoretically possible.

Paul, if you need something specific, ask here and if I can afford it I might send it to you. I'm not rich but I'm not penniless either. Other than that, you have my sympathy (if you want it)

Not without starburst included. AJust kidding (no, I'm not.) Really, I'm just kidding (no, I'm a greedy pig, send me some Starburst.) Paul, stop begging people for Starburst, you're better than that! (you really think so?)

for the bad turn of events you're experiencing. If all I can do is attempt to provide interesting and distracting conversation, then I'm glad you have at least this arena to talk in.

Be well!

"And don't forget to dine at Taco Bell, which was the only survivor of the Franchise Wars."

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Earlier, one of them asked if she could have one of the (medium size) bags of Starburst Flav-o-Reds Flack sent me. I had like half a jar and two bags; I said okay. I also warned her not to tell anybody, first because I don't want to look like a soft touch, and second, if Management finds out, they're not supposed to ask the residents for things, it doesn't matter how short on staff they are, she'll be on the street.

The staff is asking you to give them some of your Starburst? For real? Like, not an individually wrapped piece of candy, which would be bad enough, but a whole bag?

They should absolutely be fired for even asking. Holy shit.

[Tdarcos]

Earlier, one of them asked if she could have one of the (medium size) bags of Starburst Flav-o-Reds Flack sent me. I had like half a jar and two bags; I said okay. .

The staff is asking you to give them some of your Starburst? For real? Like, not an individually wrapped piece of candy, which would be bad enough, but a whole bag?

They should absolutely be fired for even asking. Holy shit.

Well, the problem is that these are Starburst Minis, which are packed unwrapped. If she opened the bag and took a few, shhe's still contaminated the contents of the bag. Same if I pulled some out. This is not like regular Starburst I can empty from a bag into a jar and someone can take individually wrapped pieces - and which if put into a popcket stay clean until unwrapped - these are as exposed as the candy in a bag of M&Ms.

[Finsternis]

The drunken obese guy who used to post here was a thousand times better, but you gotta do what's best for you at the end of the day.

Are you referring to Pinback or myself?

[Finsternis]

Am I bothered by the fact I accept bribes? Of course; I am sickened and disgusted. Not of the fact I'm willing to accept bribes, anyone with less wealth than Bill Gates or Carlos Slim can be bribed. No, what sickened and disgusted me was that I can be bribed so cheaply!

Well, I agree that it's quite hypocritical to not want pity bust still ask for bribes. As for "how much" I am reminded of the old joke about what makes a whore a whore.

I'm trying to remember you. [...] But I don't remember a Finsternis, although it's been almost 30 years, I may have forgotten.

That's because I wasn't using this handle back then. You knew me as "Psion", IIRC.

we are both dicks from time to time.

Speak for yourself, Richard.

Oh, make no mistake, you can be a dick sometimes. And so can I. In fact almost everyone can be a dick sometimes. But with you and I, maybe a little bit more often than average. I think it comes from being intelligent, educated, logical and hyperverbal.

I am sorry to hear that. Let me know if you have any minor issues like a head amputation or something like that, maybe I can offer assistance (I can offer it, whether I'd actually give anything is another story). Otherwise, let me offer you prayers, encoragement, sympathy, pity, and anything else that doesn't require I do anything or costs money.

I appreciate your candor. Lucky for me there is nothing you can do for me, so not being able to is moot. If you pray for me I will laugh at you. As for sympathy or pity - not required. I will both gladly accept and try to offer the occasional encouragement.

When you're effectively a quadriplegic, like I am, you realize in one way or another you're dependent on the charity of others for your very survival.

One could say that we are all dependent on each other from birth till death. But naturally the degree differs. Unlike you, I'm not strictly reliant on any other persons for my survival, but the assistance of my wife with some of the things that are very difficult to do myself is extremely helpful.

I think that helps with bonding, when you're a co-conspirator it can make it easier to be friends.

I've always found that to be the case. Having someone to commiserate with always helps. As Spider Robinson said, "Shared joy is increased, shared pain is decreased."

Just remember, whatever he says is just noises, when you let them get you mad, they win." I think that did make her feel a little better.

That reminds me very much of The Buddha pointing out that in a given bad situation where you usually can't change the things causing it, the only thing you can change about it is how you react to it. How you react is always your choice and under your control. No one can ever take that away from you. When you're upset, it's because you choose to be upset. Of course, understanding that and working it into your everyday life are different things. It takes practice. It's a good subject for meditation and I have to say I've been much happier since I grokked it.

ask them about themselves (everybody loves to talk about themselves!). You may not care for them that much personally but if it improves your comfort it seems wise.

That's a good idea and I'll try to remember it.

I stole that ideas. When I was in college I was working a summer internship job. One of the guys who owned the company took a liking to me and gave me a book that changed my life is some positive ways. That book has the dumbest titles for such a useful book - it's sad. It's called "How To Win Friends and Influence People". It was written in the early 20th century by Dale Carnegie and has more or less been a bestseller ever since. It's famous worldwide and countless highly successful people cite it as being very important to them. The book itself is pretty simple and quite short - it's really just a list of "do's" and "don'ts" for dealing with people. But when they're just presented as a list, they aren't that effective. You can't just read the list and gain wisdom. What's magic about the book and how it works is that each precept is illustrated by some real-life anecdotal examples that illustrate the point. Some of them are historical (it used to be more, but over the years they have edited the book a bit to take out very old ones and pout in newer ones). But I think that anyone who reads it carefully and, after each chapter, outs it down and thinks carefully about what they just read and how they could apply it in their own life, gains greatly and will be much more effective in dealing with people. Surprisingly, it is possible to get people to do what you want them to do, but in an ethical and non-coercive manner.

I will make my standard offer here that I make to many people - I'll to send you a free copy if you promise to read it, or at least give it to someone else if you don't.

I'm glad to hear that you seem to be doing the right kinds of things to get along with the staff.

Occasionally one of the aides would have to remove or apply the diaper, would say, "spread your legs," and I'd say to her, "usually a man says that to a woman." This would often get laughs, so sometimes they'd say something similar, like "open your legs,"" and I'd just snicker, so then they'd start saying, "you know what to do!"

I know it's all in good fun and it's nice to have a good rapport, but just a reminder that what was said and heard in a perfectly innocent manner can sometimes come back twisted into a different, ugly form. But you know this.

When one of them comes over, and says, "I want to take your blood pressure<" I respond, "You can't do that, I need my blood pressure! You can check my blood pressure, and if it's too high, you can take what's extra." Same if they wanted to "take" my temperature.

Ha, that's the kind of thing I would say. Good one! When people say to me "I have a question" I usually say "I have an answer." If they ask how I know I just say "I will always have an answer, it just might not be the right answer." And my favorite one is this: when people say "I could care less!" my inevitable response is "Wow, you could? That means this might be the thing you care most about! Now, if you could not care less, I'd be impressed." This kind of thing is why many people think I'm an arrogant douchebag. But it's a personal "dummy test" for me. If they bitch at me or whatever, then I just put them in the "everyday run of the mill dummy" category in my head. But every once in a while someone will get a surprised look, think for a few moments, and say "Hmm, you're right, that's pretty dumb, isn't it?" and then start saying the expression correctly from then on. Those people get my mental gold stars, my respect, and my opinion of them as rational and logical people. Almost anyone can hear a logical thing and agree with it. But for someone to hear a logical reason that something they do is illogical, and then they miraculously actually change their behavior, that means so many things to me. It means they actually listened to someone else and processed what they said, which hardly anyone does. It means they have the brains to figure out what makes sense and what doesn't based on reasoning and not emotion, and not what dogma someone else has crammed into their head. It means they don't let the usual stupid prideful bullshit get in the way, things like "but I've always done it differently!". It means they are not only smart enough to see new, better ways of doing something and adapt that better way, but - perhaps most importantly of all - they are brave enough to not be so scared of change that they will never try something new. And, for extra super points, if they are someone who has previously accused me of arrogance, it means that they are smart enough to not fall for the ad hominem fallacy - they realize that the source does not affect the truth, that even people they don't care for can be right.

OK, Phew! Didn't mean to go on so long about that one. But sometimes when I get on a roll when writing a post, I run with it and then add parts of it to my journal, or my notes for my Grand Book of Philosophy which I will probably never write and which no one would read even if I did. So, sometimes I'm not writing just for the one comment I'm responding to.

AJust kidding (no, I'm not.) Really, I'm just kidding (no, I'm a greedy pig, send me some Starburst.) Paul, stop begging people for Starburst, you're better than that! (you really think so?)

Paul, you seem ambivalent about this. Don't be. You want Starburst. It's OK to say that. No false humility required - though your internal monologue is informative.

To send you anything, people need your current address. I saw one posted somewhere earlier but then there seemed to be some confusion about room number. What's the correct data as of right now? Also, is there any particular kind of Starburst? Amazon links are welcome.

[Flack]

I will make my standard offer here that I make to many people - I'll to send you a free copy if you promise to read it, or at least give it to someone else if you don't.

If it's good enough for Charlie, it's good enough for anyone!

"The powers of manipulation that [Charles] Manson used on his followers were honed in prison when he took a class based on “How to Win Friends and Influence People,” the 1936 book by self-help guru Dale Carnegie, according to the biography “Manson.”" (LINK)

[Billy Mays]

The drunken obese guy who used to post here was a thousand times better, but you gotta do what's best for you at the end of the day.

Are you referring to Pinback or myself?

Pinback. Every last one of his posts was a gift to read when he was both extremely fat and always drunk. I'm pretty sure you on the other hand have already secured my MVP vote...And if you happen to be one of pinback's alts then I will boil my day old socks and eat them because wow you really got one over on me, unlike his Flying Carp alt account.