Billy's thread that is NOT about vaping

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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:07 pm

You made it through day 2, you can make it through day 3, pretty soon a week will go by and you will realize that you did have the willpower to overcome this obstacle. With that sort of mindset, you can move on to the patch, or gum, or cold turkey. It's just another obstacle to get past. It's not going to be easy, you already know that, but you're going to have to get really mean towards your dependency in order to conquer it, and you will conquer it because it is just the next obstacle.

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Post by FlyingCarp » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:57 pm

Nicotine gum has always helped me greatly. The patch works well, too.

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Post by Tdarcos » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:00 pm

RealNC wrote:End of day 2.

Didn't smoke for two days. I really, REALLY want to go buy a pack. The drive to do it is strong.

I vape. It's like holding your head over a pot of boiling sugar water and holding your mouth open. It feels fake. I can tell it's vapor. I can tell it's not real smoke.
To quote The Bridgetender, "You are absolutely correct, sir!"

I think the number of chemicals in processed tobacco used in cigarettes amounts to hundreds of different chemicals, some being addictive and some carcinogens. Some you might notice and some not.

Vaping liquids are artificial constructs created by tobacco scientists* to provide the essential elements of smoking. Many of the nasty items are removed, but some of those are the things you expect when smoking or that your body is addicted to. Ever notice what they would say in cigarette ads, "X grams 'tar', x.x mg nicotine avg per cigarette by FTC method." The word 'tar' is in quotes because it refers to a witches brew of residue chemicals that you inhaled when smoking.

Let's not forget, cigarette manufacturers add chemicals and flavorings to tobacco as part of the process to create a particular brand. That's why people talk about what a particular cigarette 'tastes like.'

I mean, one of the things I notice when I drink either Mountain Dew or a store-brand (cheaper) substitute is the hit of cocaine when that stuff goes down your throat. Oh sorry, I mean caffeine, but you get the idea. Tasting Mountain Dew won't give the caffeine rush you get when swallowing.


* I know the term "tobacco scientists" sounds ridiculous but that's what a TV commercial for an e-cig said, the vaping liquid "was designed by tobacco scientists at R.J. Reynolds."
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Post by pinback » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:23 am

Billy Mays wrote:You made it through day 2, you can make it through day 3, pretty soon a week will go by and you will realize that you did have the willpower to overcome this obstacle. With that sort of mindset, you can move on to the patch, or gum, or cold turkey. It's just another obstacle to get past. It's not going to be easy, you already know that, but you're going to have to get really mean towards your dependency in order to conquer it, and you will conquer it because it is just the next obstacle.
You sound like a man with personal experience, either first or second hand, with addiction. Would you care to share your experience?
Above all else... We shall go on... And continue!

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Post by Jizaboz » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:59 am

LOL the Bridgetender quote.
Tdarcos wrote: Way to go on reducing your cigarette consumption </sarcasm>
But.. I'm.. buying & using less actual cigarettes?

I hear you though. I'm going to try to get down to 5-10 a day soon. Then perhaps one day no cigarettes at all and only puff on a pipe once in a while when I just have to have the smell/flavor of real tobacco.

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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:50 am

pinback wrote:You sound like a man with personal experience, either first or second hand, with addiction. Would you care to share your experience?
I know this post is way longer than it should be, it's full of solid advice and I got carried away with writing it. I'll probably catch some flack for how long it is, but I figure that people probably already hate me around here and if any of this helps someone out that may happen to see it and think to themselves "fuck it, what do I gotta lose", then it'll be worth it to me. Sorry.

I've had my battles with being a smoker, about a pack a day at my peak, marlboro menthols. I had tried several times to quit over the years, all with varying degrees of success. I don't consider anything in life a failure because hardly anyone in life succeeds at anything on their first attempt. Life kicks you in the teeth or let you let yourself down, either way, the only direction you can go is forward. I first tried the patch on a couple of different occasions, it worked for two of my friends, but it was an obstacle I had to keep working at. Later on, I was on one of my yearly two week camping trips and attempted again with the lozenge, that time I made it about a week on the lozenge followed by about two months of cold turkey before I had to pick myself up and try again. In between all of this I tried on a number of times to just go cold turkey more times than I can count, but none of them were successful enough to make worth mentioning. On my last attempt, I went with the nicotine gum for about 3 days and then just said "fuck it" and went cold turkey. It didn't have anything to do with the gum, that was just a crutch that I had quickly discarded, it had everything to do with applying the lessons from my less successful attempts and applying them with fierce amounts of focus. This lasted for a year nicotine free, not even one hit off of a cigarette. I caved recently for various excuses, but I did it once, and I will do it again, just another obstacle. Here is what I learned, this is what worked for me. Its value is debatable since my setback, but its a damn good start to anyone on their first attempt:

1. Once an addict, always an addict. There's no getting around this. You can go a full year without smoking, bum one cigarette off of a coworker at lunch because you are stressed the fuck out with things and the very first thing running through your mind is you want another one, and another one, and another one and you are hooked all over again. Instantly from that first cigarette. At first you will try and fool yourself into believing that you can just have one cig, or even just one hit off of somebody else cig and be good. Nope, that's not how it works. Beating addiction isn't about one obstacle that you get over, put it behind you, and move on with the rest of your life. Beating addiction is about waking up and having to defeat the same obstacle everyday for the rest of your life. In time your 9 foot tall hurdles become a branch you need to step over so that you don't get tripped up, but it's always a part of you, always an obstacle you need to defeat.

2. Focus on the task at hand: completing the next obstacle. The big picture is daunting and it will just scramble your brain and mind fuck you until you give up. If you do give up, don't focus on what you perceive as failures, but rather spend your energy on focusing on all of your successes. Pick up where you left off and proceed with all of the new information you learned about yourself. I know I am repeating myself, but it's important and it emphasizes everything and repeating it over and over again is important because that's what fighting addiction is. You are moving forward and working to get over the next obstacle in terms of your positive mindset, you are constantly giving yourself tiny victories that eventually add up to huge accomplishments. A lot of people may think its like a marathon in that as long as you keep it up you will cross the finish line at some point, that's how it feels like at times, and at other times it's closer to you being in a boxing match and you need to fight fucking tooth and nail every fucking second you're standing on the mat. The important thing is that you set attainable goals: i will make it through the next five minutes, builds up your confidence, I will make it through the next hour, build up some more confidence, hours become days and days turn into weeks and months. With quitting smoking, when the craving is hammering you, you only need about five minutes of fighting hard to get past the chemical addiction part of the craving and then there is a subtle plateau before your next fight. The longer that you go completely nicotine free, the farther apart the cravings get and the milder they become. They say the first three days are the hardest and it takes about two weeks for the chemical side of the addiction to be beaten. You're probably through the worst of it by then and you have enough fight experience which makes weathering the storm easier, but it's still a fight for your life. Towards the end of my year, I was probably getting a craving maybe couple times a week, and they were very mild and passed quickly. When you walk by somebody smoking one, it will either make you kind of sick or it will smell like a large pepperoni pizza lying on a bed with a dozen playboy bunnies.

3. You have to get mean, nasty, and you have to get angry towards it. Positive thinking is a must, but that will only get you so far, at some point it becomes brutal fucking, hand to hand, trench warfare. You are going to have to get really, really fucking mean. Just expect this and expect this often and probably at the worst fucking times imaginable (and the the best times as well). The trick is you need to channel that meanness at the addiction. It becomes too easy to channel that meanness at yourself and that is when you become most vulnerable. You also don't want to channel that meanness at work, family, friends, this board ;), because it will just complicate your life, which will add to your stress levels, which will dramatically decrease your odds of success. If you do cave in, don't beat yourself up, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and continue where you left off. Maybe you want to sit down for awhile and take a break, that's ok, just don't lose sight of where you are heading. Focus your meanness on your addiction like it is an alien invader or a parasite that has taken control over you (because it is).

5. You are going to want to build up your own support group. This will usually consist of family and friends who are not addicted to the vice you are trying to beat and sit down with them and make a plan, let them know your goals, apologize in advance because things may get a little hairy at times despite you doing your best to not ever let it get hairy, and thank them for any support they're willing to give. Don't go to places where that vice is going to be available, if you're a smoker don't go to bars and if you are an alcoholic don't go to bars. Avoid friends who are still addicted to what you are trying to quit. This is another reason you need to focus your meanness on your addiction: because you don't want to alienate yourself from your support groups as their moral support and encouragement can often times mean the difference between success and set back. They have those group meetings for substance addiction, AA and what not, I was a sponsor for somebody I knew a long time ago, they work for some people and other people they do not. It may be something worth looking into, and they may have worked for some people here or somebody that you know? I won't hold that against you, but to me they just looked like a group of strangers who like jerking each other off. The best support groups are with people that you know.

6. You want to set goals goals beyond yourself. Why are you quitting? Why besides your own personal reasons? Personal reasons are good enough, and they'll get you there, but it's a lot easier when you start adding that you are also quitting because of a spouse or children or even being able to run around more with your dog. You stated you want to adopt children? It's a lot easier to let your self down and cave than it would be to also let down your wife and those children you want to adopt. You are not just doing it for yourself, you are doing it for others as well who want to see you healthier and live longer.

7. Substitute your old vice that you are trying to quit with a new vice that is safer and that you will not ever deny yourself. I had suggested chocolate bars, but you said that wouldn't work for you because of other health issues. That's fine, whatever it is, do not ever deny yourself that pleasure so that you are making a contract with yourself that you are voluntarily giving up one vice in order to receive unlimited gratification in another.

8. Get a large jar, write something that you want on it with a sharpie marker, and everyday you wake up put the money that you would have normally spent on that vice in the jar instead. At the end of the year: use the money you saved up to treat yourself! Out of all of the really solid advice and rambling I gave anyone who is still reading this: I think this last point is approaching fucking worthless. I did it, and I bought a sweet ass bow with it, I'm super happy with it because I look like a total pimp at the archery range, but the entire time I was thinking to myself: fuck this goddamn stupid fucking piece of shit jar, FUCK!!!!!! So, I don't think it really helped me at all, but it may help you? Either way, you'll buy something really fucking sweet after a year which is nice.

I think that's about it. Good luck.

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Post by pinback » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:21 am

Billy Mays wrote: 3. You have to get mean, nasty, and you have to get angry towards it.
Interesting. The only success I've ever had was the result of the exact opposite of this.

Oh well, whatever works, right?
Above all else... We shall go on... And continue!

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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:26 am

pinback wrote:
Billy Mays wrote: 3. You have to get mean, nasty, and you have to get angry towards it.
Interesting. The only success I've ever had was the result of the exact opposite of this.

Oh well, whatever works, right?
Yeah, whatever works is the important thing. For me it was one giant mind fuck balancing act to get through it. On the one side you have to fight to stay positive towards the people around you and to keeps your eyes on your goals, but on the other side you have to give a giant "FUCK YOU" to whatever is pulling you to just buy a pack or bum a smoke and fight it off until the next plateau.

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Post by Tdarcos » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:44 am

Billy, others may criticize you for writing long item but I think was relevant. I never smoked, read all your article & found interesting points.
Billy Mays wrote:I've had my battles with being a smoker, about a pack a day at my peak, marlboro menthols.

1. Once an addict, always an addict.
I heard it's less difficult to quit heroin than smoking because nicotine is highly addictive.
When you walk by somebody smoking one, it will either make you kind of sick or it will smell like a large pepperoni pizza lying on a bed with a dozen playboy bunnies.
Sister quit >30 years ago, can't stand smell. If girlfriend with me borrowing sister's car GF must smoke w/window open; sis can't stand residue and notices immediately next time car door opened.
5. You are going to want to build up your own support group. [DELETED] It may be something worth looking into, and they may have worked for some people here or somebody that you know? I won't hold that against you, but to me they just looked like a group of strangers who like jerking each other off.

Heard how some AA groups imploded, went back drinking w/o new members. Helping each other not enough, needed challenge. Same might occur w/anti-smoking groups.
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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:47 am

One of the things that I forgot to mention, surprisingly enough given how long my post was, was the toughing times to push through the cravings. I don't think the advice wouldn't have changed because it is just another obstacle...

The enhanced stress and chemical withdrawal part of quitting smoking was probably my 2nd and 3rd most difficult obstacles to conquer when they presented themselves. By far the hardest challenge, and the one that caused me to either cave or relapse the most, is easily without a doubt: guilt. I want to make it clear that this is not something criminal and I'm not a monster or anything, and I don't have any regrets in life because regret is just your mind's way of saying "stop fucking around and do it" so I'd do it and relieve myself of any regrets, but guilt. Everyone's got at least one thing in their adult life that they can look back on and think to themselves "that's something I could of done better, something I could have done different". Thinking about that is what cuts me the deepest when I am going through the lows of nicotine withdrawal.

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Post by pinback » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:56 am

Billy Mays wrote:
pinback wrote:
Billy Mays wrote: 3. You have to get mean, nasty, and you have to get angry towards it.
Interesting. The only success I've ever had was the result of the exact opposite of this.

Oh well, whatever works, right?
Yeah, whatever works is the important thing. For me it was one giant mind fuck balancing act to get through it. On the one side you have to fight to stay positive towards the people around you and to keeps your eyes on your goals, but on the other side you have to give a giant "FUCK YOU" to whatever is pulling you to just buy a pack or bum a smoke and fight it off until the next plateau.
The struggle you describe, I think, is a stressful, difficult road which for most ends in "failure". It's all very angry and energetic.
Last edited by pinback on Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:57 am

Tdarcos wrote:I heard it's less difficult to quit heroin than smoking because nicotine is highly addictive.
I'm not so sure about that. You can quit nicotine on your own, but you need 24/7 medical supervision to quit heroin.
Tdarcos wrote:Sister quit >30 years ago, can't stand smell. If girlfriend with me borrowing sister's car GF must smoke w/window open; sis can't stand residue and notices immediately next time car door opened.
Yeah, cigs kill your taste and smell so you don't realize how nasty they smell when you are a smoker. After quitting for a while, you realize that all smokers smell like ashtrays but sometimes that ashtray smell morphs into a New York Strip steak.
Tdarcos wrote:Heard how some AA groups imploded, went back drinking w/o new members. Helping each other not enough, needed challenge. Same might occur w/anti-smoking groups.
I've known people who've quit through these groups, and I've know people who just like going to buy up all of the merchandise while they postpone quitting for another week. It couldn't hurt to check one out, but I've always been a bit suspicious,

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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:02 am

pinback wrote:
Billy Mays wrote:
pinback wrote:
Billy Mays wrote: 3. You have to get mean, nasty, and you have to get angry towards it.
Interesting. The only success I've ever had was the result of the exact opposite of this.

Oh well, whatever works, right?
Yeah, whatever works is the important thing. For me it was one giant mind fuck balancing act to get through it. On the one side you have to fight to stay positive towards the people around you and to keeps your eyes on your goals, but on the other side you have to give a giant "FUCK YOU" to whatever is pulling you to just buy a pack or bum a smoke and fight it off until the next plateau.
The struggle you describe, I think, is a stressful, difficult road which for most ends in "failure". It's all very angry and energetic.
Yeah, you're probably right, I was just posting what worked for me from my experience and from learning from other peoples' experiences. There are without a doubt better methods, I'm just hoping that something in all what I wrote clicked with at least one person and they can use that as a tool to achieve their own goals.

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Post by Tdarcos » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:03 am

Billy Mays wrote: By far the hardest challenge, and the one that caused me to either cave or relapse the most, is easily without a doubt: guilt.
Billy, this is not news. You were raised Catholic, you're supposed to feel guilt. My mother was raised Catholic but my father was Methodist so that's what I grew up with. However, I recognized from her how much The Church uses guilt to manipulate people. My sister and I discussed how Catholics and Jews have guilt issues and the Jews have had thousands of years to refine their religion, but when it comes to Catholics Jews can't hold a candle to Catholic expertise in the practice of this subject.
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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:07 am

Tdarcos wrote:
Billy Mays wrote: By far the hardest challenge, and the one that caused me to either cave or relapse the most, is easily without a doubt: guilt.
Billy, this is not news. You were raised Catholic, you're supposed to feel guilt. My mother was raised Catholic but my father was Methodist so that's what I grew up with. However, I recognized from her how much The Church uses guilt to manipulate people. My sister and I discussed how Catholics and Jews have guilt issues and the Jews have had thousands of years to refine their religion, but when it comes to Catholics Jews can't hold a candle to Catholic expertise in the practice of this subject.
I think we should tiptoe out of this specific thread for a few days before they send the dogs after us.

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Post by Jizaboz » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 pm

Too late.

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Post by pinback » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:28 pm

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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:02 pm

This thread is fine now. It became a different topic so I split it.

I will be less dismissive of titles in the future.

This thread is now about RECOVERY.
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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Post by RealNC » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:21 pm

So what's the other thread about now?

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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:43 pm

Billy Mays wrote:You made it through day 2, you can make it through day 3, pretty soon a week will go by and you will realize that you did have the willpower to overcome this obstacle. With that sort of mindset, you can move on to the patch, or gum, or cold turkey. It's just another obstacle to get past. It's not going to be easy, you already know that, but you're going to have to get really mean towards your dependency in order to conquer it, and you will conquer it because it is just the next obstacle.
Ok, so this is a shitpost, I'm sorry about that, I thought that I was just trying to give somebody going through a really difficult time some encouragement. I now see where I messed up by thinking that. Sorry.

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