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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:26 am

The Square Deal

01/16/17 - 01/17/17

RIP

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FlyingCarp
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Post by FlyingCarp » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:27 am

Back to ENGL101 Billy Mays wrote:The Square Deal

01/16/17 - 01/17/17

RIP
I've got no real skin in this game, but I did read the Square Deal you keep referencing and wanted to state that it's clear there's nothing in it to stop people giving you a hard time. You seem to have signed your named to a document you didn't comprehend. You also seem to believe if you wave it around enough the words you wish were there will appear.

The part you might have misinterpreted ends in this: "While it would be nice if nobody was attacked viciously, I'd say that's a "mainstay" for bulletin boards, going back to 1978 when Ward Christensen invented the BBS to call Randy Seuss a suspected gaybot."

What is in the Square Deal is the right for you to complain about personal attacks in the Troll Room (where such complaints seem likely to fall on deaf ears or to be met with even more scorn).

...at least that's my interpretation.

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Post by pinback » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:32 am

FlyingCarp wrote:
Back to ENGL101 Billy Mays wrote:The Square Deal

01/16/17 - 01/17/17

RIP
I've got no real skin in this game, but I did read the Square Deal you keep referencing and wanted to state that it's clear there's nothing in it to stop people giving you a hard time. You seem to have signed your named to a document you didn't comprehend. You also seem to believe if you wave it around enough the words you wish were there will appear.

The part you might have misinterpreted ends in this: "While it would be nice if nobody was attacked viciously, I'd say that's a "mainstay" for bulletin boards, going back to 1978 when Ward Christensen invented the BBS to call Randy Seuss a suspected gaybot."

What is in the Square Deal is the right for you to complain about personal attacks in the Troll Room (where such complaints seem likely to fall on deaf ears or to be met with even more scorn).

...at least that's my interpretation.
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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:55 am

FlyingCarp wrote:
Back to ENGL101 Billy Mays wrote:The Square Deal

01/16/17 - 01/17/17

RIP
I've got no real skin in this game, but I did read the Square Deal you keep referencing and wanted to state that it's clear there's nothing in it to stop people giving you a hard time. You seem to have signed your named to a document you didn't comprehend. You also seem to believe if you wave it around enough the words you wish were there will appear.

The part you might have misinterpreted ends in this: "While it would be nice if nobody was attacked viciously, I'd say that's a "mainstay" for bulletin boards, going back to 1978 when Ward Christensen invented the BBS to call Randy Seuss a suspected gaybot."

What is in the Square Deal is the right for you to complain about personal attacks in the Troll Room (where such complaints seem likely to fall on deaf ears or to be met with even more scorn).

...at least that's my interpretation.
There is this one problem in your argument "new guy":

"#3 - I bear nobody here ill will."

Ill will, as in animosity or bitterness. The unprovoked attacks I am receiving are by nature done in the spirit of ill will as by your own admission, that is why people are also calling for me to get banned.


So are they done with animosity, or are they done in good nature?

If they are done with animosity, they are violating The Square Deal.

And if they are done in good nature, then I have every right to respond in good nature since then it is just friendly banter, and people shouldn't be calling for my ban.

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Post by Tdarcos » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:14 pm

Billy Mays wrote: So are they done with animosity, or are they done in good nature?

If they are done with animosity, they are violating The Square Deal.

And if they are done in good nature, then I have every right to respond in good nature since then it is just friendly banter, and people shouldn't be calling for my ban.
Sigh.

Does anyone wonder why, I asked, if I agreed to the rules, that the other side would keep to their side? Looks like Pinback's channeling of Kahn I fits here.
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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:29 pm

I meant that I, personally, bear nobody any ill will. You guys have a lot of ill will to bear towards one another, I just want everyone to know that it isn't coming from me.

FlyingCarp is correct in that the idea is that you had a thread, the Settling Scores one, to reply to people who might give you a hard time in other threads. It was an attempt at organization.
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Post by pinback » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:I just want everyone to know that it isn't coming from me.
Oh, no, absolutely. We totally get it.
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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:I meant that I, personally, bear nobody any ill will. You guys have a lot of ill will to bear towards one another, I just want everyone to know that it isn't coming from me.

FlyingCarp is correct in that the idea is that you had a thread, the Settling Scores one, to reply to people who might give you a hard time in other threads. It was an attempt at organization.

You hadn't specified that when I agreed to The Square Deal, thereby I am only able to go by how it was worded, and the wording indicates that nobody here would bear ill will against each other. I don't see why that is such a terrible thing to do? Not be a dick to each other?

I will continue to be nice to people here as I have, but I also don't feel it appropriate to let people walk all over me when they do not return the courtesy.

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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:58 pm

Well, that's what I mean. If someone is taking a poke at you, go to the Settling of Scores thread and give it back to them. It will help threads not be derailed. That's all.
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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:03 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Well, that's what I mean. If someone is taking a poke at you, go to the Settling of Scores thread and give it back to them. It will help threads not be derailed. That's all.
If somebody is attacking me, isn't the thread already derailed and would it not be their fault for doing so? I don't entirely understand this this sudden switch from victim blaming that had been the norm to victim punishing?

What I thought was what you said. That is the only way any rational human being could interpret it because otherwise, as our "newest" member pointed out, the Settling of Scores room is just an opportunity for people to shitpost me with impunity and then have my responses land on "deaf ears". That is why the only way I agreed to any contract is with your "ill will" clause, a very reasonable one in how it is worded. Otherwise, as pinback has stated, I deserve the abuse not based off of anything I say or do, or even the content of my character, but just by the very act of existing:
pinback wrote:Yes, all of these attacks are your fault, because you are a blight on this community.

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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:12 pm

I don't think you deserve any ill will. Don't think of it as victim blaming or punishing, think of it as victim organization. If someone takes a shot at you and you settle it elsewhere, then the original thread isn't derailed. Would it be nice if nobody took shots at you? Yeah, but you shitpost a little. You gotta admit, you shitpost sometimes. Not judging. There's no judgment with that statement.

I don't see anyone ignoring this thread. In fact, Tdarcos can't stop posting here. He loves it. This is just about organization.
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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:35 pm

How is someone shitposting me unprovoked not derailing a thread, but me shitposting back a huge thread ending event?

And it won't settle anything because in another day or two, it will just become another dead thread that gets buried in the archive that nobody will visit again unless they are hunting for zingers which as far as I can tell is just me which brings me back to my original point that scores will not be settled there.

And what is wrong with "don't be a dick to each other" as a general rule? That is how the social contract is enforced in normal society. The reason for this is not only is it a general deterrent against people wanting to be a dick to someone, but it also creates a system where victims have some recourse and are not perpetrated on by mobs of psychologically unhinged deviants.

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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:55 pm

Take for example, why couldn't you just say (and it wouldn't be a stretch based on precedent):

"What I REALLY meant to say when I said the Settling of Scores thread was for Billy, is that it ACTUALLY means that anyone who wants to attack him should do so there because you will just have to check back there later to see how he responds anyways."

You and I both know the reason for this, and it is the same reason that I signed The Square Deal agreement ONLY with the Ill Will clause as you worded it.

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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:28 am

I just can't get over how bizarre and completely backwards your reasoning is here? It would be the same as if a town had a knife attack epidemic and the the mayor just decided to legalize knife attacks but only for the criminal element, and then made a suggestion box that knife attack victims could use to communicate their displeasure with their assailants, but only if any knife attack gave enough shits to even look in the box in the first place!

I also can't understand how we even got here in the first place?

In the early days after I first arrived, you said "I let you shitpost as much as you want" - and I can get the citation if you need it. So I shitpost maybe 50% or less of the attacks and shitposts that were thrown my way first. I wanted to give people the benefit of the doubt out of consideration. Then you said "ease up on the shitposting" - this was a summary, but I can also get a citation if you need it. So I didn't shitpost anybody, I agreed with what pinback said in regards to those passengers being assholes and I got banned!

I got banned for a month for agreeing with the original poster! I got off of that ban, and I got banned for another two weeks shortly there after for providing pinback some encouragement in his sobriety goals! Banned for offering encouragement, now that is bizarre?

I also lost my thread starting privileges! This part I'm actually fine with, it was shitty as fuck to do that and I didn't do anything to deserve it, but it doesn't bother me for whatever reason.

And now I am in this weird system where the only right thing to do around here is to prey on defenseless victims such as myself? This is just plain goofy.

Oh, also in there was when I got my top song thread locked because I can only imagine that at the time it had a significantly higher (50%+) view count than any of the other song lists and you did not want that to be another excuse for people to attack me unprovoked (something one of your own moderators brags that that his single motivation in the attacks are that they are unprovoked - I can also get a citation for that as well, but this last one was just the other day so it should be easy to find) out of jealousy, so I guess I should thank you for that at least.

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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:09 am

The "new" member, FlyingCarp, did bring up a number of interesting (poorly thought out) points regarding the wording of The Square Deal plan which forced me to read it a little closer. There are numerous inconsistencies, issues, and possible loopholes in your Square Deal plan. Here are just a few of the many, many in which I found:

Even if I were to give you (hypothetically since this would be completely absurd) that clause #3 which states "I bear nobody here ill will." does not somehow mean "I bear nobody here ill will." but rather it only means that "Robb bears nobody here ill will", an absurd assumption since 1) It does not say that, and 2) It is an unreasonable expectation to have anyone sign off on what they believe you are thinking, and 3) that that clause does not prohibit people from attacking me unprovoked despite that being what was written, and that under clause #2:


"#2 - There will be a Settling of Scores thread in the Troll Room as well. If Billy Mays feels that another forum poster is giving him a hard time or attacking him, he can bump that thread and respond there. While it would be nice if nobody was attacked viciously, I'd say that's a "mainstay" for bulletin boards, going back to 1978 when Ward Christensen invented the BBS to call Randy Seuss a suspected gaybot."


States the condition that all defensive statements by me "can" be made in the "Settling of Scores" thread. It is completely optional through the wording. So not only does it actually encourage unprovoked attacks against me, but it also gives me the option to address it right there with my own defensive shitposting in the current thread or in the Settling of Scores thread. Redirecting for a momentary sidetrack, this concept is further reinforced by the wording in the aforementioned thread: "I would prefer it be done here if you are Billy Mays or Tdarcos than elsewhere in other threads." The key word here is "prefer", tend to choose, submit for consideration, not mandatory. Even if you discount much of this soft language that was used in the contract, the option still remains in that "another forum poster is giving him a hard time or attacking him". So essentially you would prefer that I post in the aforementioned thread in the event that I feel attacked, however, me taking the opening shitposting shots is 1) not mentioned which implies it to be acceptable, and 2) actually encouraged by the example of Ward calling Randy a gaybot. Also, since this is conditionally based on how I interpret the suspected shitposting aggressor, I could even interpret it as good natured to avoid the optional Settling of Scores thread and then just go immediately into my own unprovoked shitpost against that person in that same thread?

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Post by pinback » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:51 am

Four shitposts in a row! Outstanding work. I love this guy!

Keep it up, that's what I say. Once every single thread on this BBS is unreadable, people will stop posting, and then it'll be over, and then we don't have to worry about it anymore.
Above all else... We shall go on... And continue!

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Billy Mays
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Post by Billy Mays » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:02 am

pinback wrote:Four shitposts in a row! Outstanding work. I love this guy!

Keep it up, that's what I say. Once every single thread on this BBS is unreadable, people will stop posting, and then it'll be over, and then we don't have to worry about it anymore.
They were not shitpoists, they were questions and comments directed towards Robb so that I do not break any of the new rules in the future.

I would have asked you these questions, but I am more than certain that you would have just responded with a shitpost like you just did! But that's ok, because in your own words:
pinback wrote:Nobody cares what you do in the Troll Room. Carte blanche, my friend!

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Tdarcos
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Post by Tdarcos » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:01 am

pinback wrote:Four shitposts in a row! Outstanding work. I love this guy!
How are they "shitposts" when this is the Troll Room? Where nobody supposedly cares what is said?

Besides, I think he was trying to determine in exactly what directions and how far that team from Professional Goalpost Movers L.L.C. is allowed to travel.
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Post by Flack » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:37 am

They're shitposts because this thread is about two things: posting pictures of people who die, and explaining to you (Tdarcos) who those people were. Anything else in this thread, regardless of what forum this thread is in, is off topic. That's what it has been for the past six years.
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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:31 am

Billy Mays wrote:Take for example, why couldn't you just say (and it wouldn't be a stretch based on precedent):

"What I REALLY meant to say when I said the Settling of Scores thread was for Billy, is that it ACTUALLY means that anyone who wants to attack him should do so there because you will just have to check back there later to see how he responds anyways."

You and I both know the reason for this, and it is the same reason that I signed The Square Deal agreement ONLY with the Ill Will clause as you worded it.
Ah yes, good stuff. Communities frequently love it when a guy comes in, is widely unpopular (not with me, with others) and then starts arguing for changes within that community. This will go over well. :/
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