Is the NFL really fixed?

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AArdvark
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Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by AArdvark » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:21 pm

is not obviously, hilariously fixed like the NFL
Is this really a thing? If so, do they change the outcomes based on sports betting odds, like the New York daily lottery and Pick10?

What clues should I be watching for to determine for myself that the games are fixed?

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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by pinback » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:09 pm

The NFL isn't fixed, it's broken.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by AArdvark » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:38 pm

Oh, you!

You know what I mean

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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Tdarcos » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:44 pm

pinback wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:09 pm
The NFL isn't fixed, it's broken.
AArdvark wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:38 pm
Oh, you! You know what I mean
I was thinking the same thing but Pinback beat me to it, Although I might have said "irreparably broken."

As for being corrupted, which is what 'Vark originally was referring to, in both posts, let me look at this for a moment.
AArdvark wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:21 pm
is not obviously, hilariously fixed like the NFL
Is this really a thing? If so, do they change the outcomes based on sports betting odds, like the New York daily lottery and Pick10?
I think you're saying New York's lottery recalculates the payoff amounts (presumably to lower them) if some numbers get too popular. And you wonder if perhaps professional football teams change their play or performance based on the change in odds. I'll answer that in my following response.
AArdvark wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:21 pm
What clues should I be watching for to determine for myself that the games are fixed?
What I want to say first is too many people when suspecting something, tend to discard Occam's Razor, and "when they hear hoof beats, think zebras rather than horses." Now, any significant change to professional football operations, or hell, even amateur ones in college or high school, would require the involvement, and knowledge, of many people. The players would have to know when not to score or what limits not to exceed. Coaches would have to tell them what to do and what not to. Whoever wants to rig the games would have to tell coaches how to play, and possibly others touting the game would have to do so, as well as spread opposite information in order to encourage bets on the team chosen to lose. (Which either brings in more money to them if taking bets, or increases the odds if they are placing them.)

First, this is the classic definition of a conspiracy. "The act of two or more persons, called conspirators, working secretly to obtain some goal, usually understood with negative connotations." The key word here is "secretly." If it becomes known, people might start betting the opposite way, which could spoil the plans of whoever wants to fix these games. There are just too many people needing to be involved for this to remain a secret.

Second, there is also the Latin expression "Cui bono?" which translates to "Who benefits?" The NFL has been against sports betting for a long time, in fact all sports associations have been against it. In some cases I think the NBA tried to go after score reporting services - which sports books have to have to compute odds - by claiming real-time reporting of scores of games in progress violated their copyright. The courts saw through that as an attempt to copyright facts, which are uncopyrightable.

If you actually pay attention to one of those copyright warnings they give during a professional game about all he things you can't repeat or republish, the one thing they don't mention is the running score.

Third, I don't think the owners would be involved, there's already a lot of money to be made in running legitimate, clean contests. There might be some assistance being given to bettors by supplying injury statistics, but that is tangential and is probably more related to allowing fans to know why a specific athlete is not playing rather than them coming up with their own speculations. ("Hey did you know John Doe, linebacker for the Skunks, hasn't been playing for two weeks now? I thought he was playing badly before. I'll bet he's out doing rehab for his coke addiction.")

Fourth, there are too many reporters covering professional sports for something this juicy a story to remain secret for long. It would be a major scandal. Look what happened to Pete Rose, although part of the outrage might be because he bet on his own team.

Is professional wrestling fixed? Of course, everyone knows it is, but the one important thing that makes it funny rather than totally corrupt, is who is going to win on any night is kept secret. (Frankly, if it was known there'd be no reason to watch. This of course presumes there is anyone with an IQ above room temperature to watch professional wrestling.)

So even at that it's well known pro wrestling has fixed outcomes, no such reports about any other professional sports have surfaced. Thus I think it's not probable at this time that NFL football has any issues with game fixing.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:35 pm

The refs are under obvious, indisputable instructions to keep the games close. If a team can get too far ahead too early, the refs will invalidate plays with penalties.

This is because the ads get more eyeballs if the games are close.

And this is because the guy running the league is a narcissistic, dumb fucking asshole, too stupid to see the problem with that plan.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:32 pm

For the record, the refs only scored 7 this week against the Saints, nullifying a touchdown right before the end of the first half.

I think it's happened each week. Stick with me, Tdarcos, I'll show you the truth.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:42 pm

There was a new rule put into the NFL this year. It allows coaches to challenge pass interference calls - they can challenge when they think it has been committed but not called.

It was put in because there was an obvious call in last year's NFC Championship game that simply wasn't called and it allowed the Rams to go to the Super Bowl instead of the Saints.

So, this rule exists and coaches have been trying to challenge pass interference. Almost as a rule, the calls have not been reversed.

Game tied with under 3 minutes to go, Saints 31, Panthers 31 today. It's third down, Panthers have the ball close to the goal line. Chauncey Gardner-Johnson sticks an arm out at a passing Panthers receiver. Ball goes nowhere near the receiver. No call. The correct call.

The Panthers' coach challenges even though this has almost not been overturned all year long.

It gets overturned.

It was blatant. It was an obvious "Fuck You for Standing Up To Us" overturning, from the refs to the Saints. They have done everything possible all year to fuck the Saints over and what happened was obvious. I am easing my way out of the sport because it's fixed. Nothing about it said "gangster" until now. It was a nice piece of work. Al Riveron, who makes the final calls in NYC on these plays, shouldn't have signed it.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by AArdvark » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:37 pm

Son of a bitch if the refs arent keeping the scores close

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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by pinback » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:44 pm

The refs seems pretty excited for the 49ers to win today. I've counted, what is it, three drive-extending phantom penalties on this last drive? The last one was the worst, particularly because the state-run media had to stand there in the booth going "it's a tough call, but the right one." No. No, that was not the right call, by the way.

I don't care about the Saints. But this is pretty bad.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:50 pm

Up until this last drive the refs were fine. For the first time the entire season I thought the officiating was back to "normal."

But the ticky tack drive extensions that we've seen all season long came up just now, yeah.

Oooh, we might just have defensive holding against SF... haha yes. So the Saints' drive just got extended.

JUST LET THEM PLAY holy shit - now the refs are in "do anything to make the game in reach." As per the premise of this thread. Fixed as fuck.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:17 pm

We just had another drive extended. I will admit that the ball Brees threw to Tre'Quan was not catchable and not going to be.

Then Tre'Quan caught a ball and scored.

I don't like it when the Saints benefit from it either.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:21 pm

OK. 3rd and 2 for the Niners.

They either get it or the refs help them. That's why this is fixed.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:22 pm

Er, wait, the refs knew they'd go for it on 4th. So let's see.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:24 pm

Hahaha - so, the Niners ran it and got the first down and for some reason our safety did the most blatant face mask of all time. Jesus Christ.
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:40 am

The Refs ruined the Texans / Bills game by suddenly deciding not to enforce a rule that's on the books. Let's see how they ruin Saints / Vikings next!
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by pinback » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:37 pm

:(
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:28 pm

I'm glad it's over. I would say the impact of the official was minimal - it went to overtime and the NFL likes the sudden death aspect of it. They changed the rules to make it so that a TD is needed to win after we went to the Super Bowl in 2009, so I can't complain. It came down to a coin flip and good execution on the part of the Vikings.

But I am glad it's over. The Saints went 13-3. That ... is the most miserable 13-3 stretch I can think of. Every game it seemed like the referees did something completely indefensible. The games were designed to make you mad. I didn't enjoy the season at all and my team went 13-3. We only lost three games and I grew to dread the time sink on Sundays. How is anyone else putting up with this unless you're in Baltimore, I don't know.

But it's over. Thank god. I feel like walking into a life I barely knew. What will I do with all this free time?
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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by AArdvark » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:56 am

I was reading about this on Debate.org and the reviews are 90% fixed to 10% not rigged. That alone tells you a lot about public perception. Then someone mentioned about the NFL calling themselves entertainment and how they're exempt from the anti-trust laws. If that's true then the NFL is truly rigged.


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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by The Happiness Engine » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:18 pm

The most cogent thing I read on this is after the NHL lied about the Sabres winning the Stanley Cup. It's not "fixed" in the traditional sense, but every single person knows how much money their entire employer is going to make on a larger-market team winning (Just think of number of hats ALONE) so there's, let's say a strong unconscious bias even before we get to dick-waving between league, owners, and GMs.

All I know is I watch watching some bullshit about a TD catch during lunch and thought to myself "well, I don't know the fucking pass-interference rules so I can't really take a side here" then ESPN helpfully put up "NFL Rule 2.5.7 The exact thing that fucker is doing on multiple camera angles is pass interference" and I feel still fully justified in going back to ignoring football.

I mean, Baseball and to a lesser extent Hockey has this problem solved so what the fuck is going on with this mess?

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Re: Is the NFL really fixed?

Post by AArdvark » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:28 pm

There's too much money. It's only a matter of time before there are football lawyers

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