Pinball FX 2

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:06 pm

I original wrote this at Caltrops but it's important enough that you need to see it here, too:

Pinball FX 2 now available for PC on Steam:

Apparently it's been on consoles a while, but just made its way to PC last month. That it's a console port is obvious.

That it's by far the greatest video-game pinball game ever created is just as obvious. There are about 20+ tables available right now (as paid content), and each one is a goddamn work of art and feels as authentic as if you were standing in an old pool hall playing them, except all the flippers and lights operate properly.

I never loved a PIN, but this game is making me love some PINs. Friend me up on Steam and we can play against each other online bra. I think.

RealNC · Post by **RealNC** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:00 pm

pinback wrote:That it's by far the greatest video-game pinball game ever created is just as obvious.

Sorry, but Pinball Fantasies already covered that spot. No pinball game is ever going to be better than Pinball Fantasies. Ever. Not in a million years.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:44 am

This is a better game than Pinball Fantasies. The table design, from what I have seen, has more going on and is more imaginative.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:40 pm

Also, all of Ben's threads start off with people telling him that he is not correct. Why?

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:31 pm

I am not well-liked.

Also, RealNC's bit is telling everyone that they're wrong as soon as they start a thread.

We love you, man. Stay below the fold.

RealNC · Post by **RealNC** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:01 pm

As soon as someone tries to present a personal opinion as a fact, then you'll get people disagreeing. If this is what pinback is doing in his threads, then I think it's natural for this to happen. There is no mystery there. Nor is it a negative thing. It's called "having a discussion."

pinback wrote:I am not well-liked.

I see no evidence of that anywhere.

pinback wrote:RealNC's bit is telling everyone that they're wrong

You expect me to say "you're wrong", aren't you? Not gonna happen ;-)

But really, am I doing that? Wasn't aware of it.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:19 pm

No, it's true, he is not well-liked.

I will post a screenshot of this pinball game ASAP.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:06 am

RealNC wrote:As soon as someone tries to present a personal opinion as a fact, then you'll get people disagreeing.

"Pinball FX 2 is the best pinball video game ever" is a personal opinion, BUT is so close to being fact that it's indistinguishable.

"Filiberto's is better than Del Taco" is an analogous "opinion". There may be those who disagree, but their opinion is so bad as to be worthless and worth actively ignoring.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:57 pm

Doesn't really apply, but I just saw that and can't stop laughing.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:15 pm

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:01 pm

Questions for Jonsey:

1. As a PIN enthusiast, what are the things that a game like FX 2 can't provide that you can only get from a real life PIN?

2. Can you see pinball simulations ever getting to a point where they will surpass the pure, innocent joy of a real PIN?

lethargic · Post by **lethargic** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:28 pm

I had some Live points I couldn't find anything to get with so I just went ahead and bought a bunch of tables. I think it took me 20 minutes to get bored. There's just something that's not captivating about fake pinball. Why do I need a videogame version of something I can actually do in real life? I can't play in the NBA so I need that.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:15 am

lethargic wrote:I had some Live points I couldn't find anything to get with so I just went ahead and bought a bunch of tables. I think it took me 20 minutes to get bored. There's just something that's not captivating about fake pinball. Why do I need a videogame version of something I can actually do in real life? I can't play in the NBA so I need that.

Because:

1: These tables can do things real-life tables can't.

2: Every real-life table is broken.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:42 pm

pinback wrote:Questions for Jonsey:

1. As a PIN enthusiast, what are the things that a game like FX 2 can't provide that you can only get from a real life PIN?

You were right to come to me with these questions, Ben.

I'm not going to go into a touchy-feely thing with you. There are real problems with this game, and ever other computer pinball game I have played.

Pinball FX2 has chemtrails to help you follow the ball. I don't need those. I also did not need the chip in the hockey puck to let Fox point it out.

The physics are a little too "sterile," meaning that when the ball drains down that funnel in the Diving table we are currently playing, it drains in the exact same manner every time. Almost nothing happens in the same way that it does on a real table, and it breaks the illusion.

Each table in the sim is also "perfect". It's an acceptable part of pinball to know that my old Funhouse had such a jagged playfield that the ball would break right at the last second due to imperfections in the wood. Maybe one of the casters holding the legs up is taller than the others? Maybe it would be nice if you break some pieces of plastic off on the table, and you're stuck with a broken table until you get enough credits to have it serviced?

But here is the chief thing - in every pinball game I have ever played, "nudge" is worthless. Nudge is a split-second, single bang against either the right or left side of the cabinet. It's not like that at all in real life!

I mean, I have spent a lot of time with just two tables that have almost the exact same layout, so I am not some expert. But when I see a ball starting to drain down the left lane in TRON: Legacy, I can push or drag that machine a foot to the left in the hopes of having the ball not go down the drain after all. When trying to hit a skill shot in TRON, there is a spot to hit with your right hand about three inches past the right flipper button and juuust a bit up that will help the ball get to the right hole.

There are also a few things like death saves and bang backs that are never implemented. And since those two kind of saves actually do take the life out of a machine, they are the ones that SHOULD be implemented.

For example, let's say the ball is headed straight between the flippers. On most tables, the hole isn't dead center - there is an angled piece of wood that funnels the ball to where the real drain is (to the right). If the ball has enough speed, it might hit that angled wood and bounce up - if you kick, literally kick the coin door, you might have a chance of giving the ball enough momentum to save it with a flipper.

I have never seen that implemented in a pinball sim.

What I do see is nudge being a counter that you can use twice. If you try to use it a third time, you automatically tilt. On a real table, there is a block of metal hanging from a wire, inside a metal circle. When the wire strikes the metal, a circuit is complete and the game knows you are really dragging the machine around. The length of that wire that holds the block is up to the operator.

None of that is implemented in these games.

I'd say that the inability to throw the table around like it was an anime pillow girl and I was into anime is the chief failing of the pinball games I've played on the computer.

2. Can you see pinball simulations ever getting to a point where they will surpass the pure, innocent joy of a real PIN?

Yeah, the makers of these sims just need to understand that each table is different and that the ball can (and will) go anywhere. It's OK the machine I am playing on takes wear. It is OK if the ball is someplace it can't be and I have to call the operator to open the glass and knock it loose. And these games need to understand the dozens of different ways the machine can be nudged and moved.

People have said that Stern (for the longest time, the only creator of new machines) is one fuckup away from going out of business. I don't think that is the case, but if they were to fold, real pinball would be in trouble.

The other big advantage sims can take is to tell you how to play the games. I have to make a conscious decission to learn the rules to a pin - the game itself sure as shit isn't going to tell you. And like I said over IM, I had to *look the rules up on a third party site not affiliated with Stern* to get the total ruleset to Tron. What a crock of shit. If I were to go into an arcade with pins and really attempt to play them without just banging the ball around, I'd need a personal computer nearby to look up rules. By TELLING you how to play, a sim can really shine.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:08 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Pinball FX2 has chemtrails to help you follow the ball. I don't need those. I also did not need the chip in the hockey puck to let Fox point it out.

Y-- you can turn that off. I assume the first thing we both did was turn this off.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:13 pm

Regarding the rest of your response:

1. I understand. Everything is, and probably always be a bit too perfect, and they'll never simulate throwing the machine around.

2. FX2's "table guides" do tell you how to play, so I was happy with that.

I've played PINs and I've played VIDEO PINs and until now I'd never give up the real thing. But FX2 does the real thing close enough, and then ADDS enough to it to make me forget what it's leaving behind, that I think... I think I'm good on real PIN.

Prove me wrong, Stern! Prove me wrong!

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:04 pm

pinback wrote:Prove me wrong, Stern! Prove me wrong!

Please come to Colorado for a weekend. There is a nice, new lineup of games and pins.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:42 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:
pinback wrote:Prove me wrong, Stern! Prove me wrong!
Please come to Colorado for a weekend. There is a nice, new lineup of games and pins.

They are all broken.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:06 pm

What? Mine all work.

What?

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:39 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:What? Mine all work.

What?

There's always something wrong. You're saying you've got a pin that everything works on?

Pinball FX 2

Pinball FX 2

Re: Pinball FX 2