Awakening

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Awakening

Post by pinback » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:32 am

As I have suspected for quite some time, and now confirmed, the moment of awakening/enlightenment is very much like a reverse Matrix.

In the Matrix, you're living a nice, plain, comfortable life, and then you wake up and realize that it was a dream, and reality is one gigantic nightmare.

Awakening is very much the opposite. For some, the dream of form, self, separation, birth, death, etc. is so strong, compelling, burdensome and painful that life IS that one gigantic nightmare, a day-to-day struggle just to find some tiny scrap of peace and happiness, knowing all-too-well that no matter what you do, one day your body's gonna fall apart, you're gonna die, and then it's all for shit.

Upon awakening, all of that delusion is cast off, and you're left with nothing but this. Timeless, indivisible, inescapable, eternal. And then you get to live a nice, plain, comfortable life.

I swear I'm not going to go all Jack Straw, even though I'm sure this sounds like it.

Thank you for your time.

I'll hang up and listen.

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Post by RealNC » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:20 am

If you don't have some serious form of cancer, or other illness that results in pain beyond any imagination, then life if always worth living.

Please don't commit suicide, Mr. pinback. You're a funny guy and we like you!

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Post by pinback » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:22 am

I don't--

That wasn't the--

Okay, thanks!

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Post by pinback » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:45 pm

If awakening is an "activity", or a "practice", it feels like this:

Realizing what is, and discarding the rest without a second (or first!) thought.

This takes some courage, because "the rest" is what most of our lives are based on, virtually every waking second.

If awakening is an "event", it feels like this:

It feels like jumping off a cliff, or perhaps more to the point, being pushed off of it. Terrifying. You know you're going to die. You feel the wind and the ground rushing up to smash you to bits, 32 feet per second per second at a time, powerless, helpless, hopeless.

Then you start flying. Then you disappear into the sun.

That is the activity. That is the practice. That is the event.

And all of that can be safely discarded as well.

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Post by Flack » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:05 pm

In the long run, weed's better for you than alcohol and heroin's worse.
"Jack Flack always escapes." -Davey Osborne

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Post by pinback » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:15 am

Flack wrote:In the long run, weed's better for you than alcohol and heroin's worse.
I dunno, I watch "Intervention" every week, and without question, the alcoholics are always way more resistant to getting help than the smackers.

So if taken individually, one night of shootin' up is probably worse for you than getting hammered. However, the really bad heroin addicts tend to just start crying and immediately say, yes, thank you, I'll go to treatment, while the alkies are always the ones getting mad, screaming, running out, refusing to do anything, etc. So perhaps there's something a little more insidious about alcoholism.

(And of course, there's never been an Intervention dealing with weed addicts, because that's not a thing.)

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Post by pinback » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:24 am

pinback wrote:Realizing what is, and discarding the rest without a second (or first!) thought.

This takes some courage, because "the rest" is what most of our lives are based on, virtually every waking second.
The mind says, "of course I realize what is, the fuck you talkin' about?" Let's take an example. Here's a good one! The most pressing question a person has ever considered:

"What happens after you die?"

Seems like a perfectly reasonable question. There may be some lingering sense that we can never know, but one thing we all agree on is that it's a question that deserves to be asked.

Except it's all based on assumption. Every single word is based not on what is, but on assumption, a mind-created story, a dream:

"What". ASSUMPTION: There are separate things, events that occur, many of which occurred in the past, and many of which will occur in the future. We want to know what those things are.

"happens". ASSUMPTION: Things happen.

"after". ASSUMPTION: The aforementioned things happen in a timeline.

"you". ASSUMPTION: There is any such person, there is an individual, born on your birthday, named (your name here), to which all of these events are happening.

"die". ASSUMPTION: Aforementioned person, individual, with your birthday and name, will also cease to be one day, at the time of an event called "death".

And yet, when what is is realized, all of those assumptions are seen to have been lighter than a feather, built on a house of cards, and they dissipate like farts in the wind. They are discarded in favor of what is, and the question is rendered irrelevant, nonsensical.

So there. That's what happens after you die.

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Post by RealNC » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:31 am

I had a moment of awakening and realization. I know what happens after you die: The same thing that was happening before you were conceived. You remember those? No? Exactly.

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Post by pinback » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:47 pm

RealNC wrote:I had a moment of awakening and realization. I know what happens after you die: The same thing that was happening before you were conceived. You remember those? No? Exactly.
It's even better than that. What happens after you die is also the same thing that is happening right now.

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Post by Tdarcos » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:14 am

pinback wrote:
pinback wrote:Here's a good one! The most pressing question a person has ever considered:

"What happens after you die?"

Seems like a perfectly reasonable question. There may be some lingering sense that we can never know, but one thing we all agree on is that it's a question that deserves to be asked.
Yes it is an excellent, perfectly reasonable question and one of the best shining examples of metaphysics.

Without making any assumptions, there are only four possible answers, of which I suspect only three are realistic. (1) You cease to exist, i.e. the end of your life results in annihilation; (2) You continue to exist in some form, but do not like the results (usually referred to as "hell"); (3) You continue to exist in some form but neither dislike nor like the results; (4) You continue to exist in some form and do like the results (usually referred to as "heaven" or "paradise" or "nirvanna").

The only problem I have is that because the question is metaphysical, I can give you all of the answers, I can't state which is the correct one or even if the answer varies. Anyone who claims to have a correct answer to a metaphysical question is engaging in religion.

I consider #3 unrealistic, I suspect if you survived death you'd either like or dislike the results, I do not think you would be indifferent.

"But here's something that will probably bake your noodle": Did you consider that #1 is absolutely irrelevant? That it won't matter to you at all if you cease to exist?

Think about that some time.
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that no one learns the lessons of history. tdarcos@tdarcos.com

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Post by pinback » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:59 am

Tdarcos wrote:Without making any assumptions, there are only four possible answers, of which I suspect only three are realistic. (1) You cease to exist, i.e. the end of your life results in annihilation; (2) You continue to exist in some form, but do not like the results (usually referred to as "hell"); (3) You continue to exist in some form but neither dislike nor like the results; (4) You continue to exist in some form and do like the results (usually referred to as "heaven" or "paradise" or "nirvanna").
Every single one of those answers includes a gigantic assumption, which is that there is a "you" that is born, dies, goes somewhere (or not), etc.

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Post by Tdarcos » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:31 am

pinback wrote:
Tdarcos wrote:Without making any assumptions, there are only four possible answers [discussion of conditions after death deleted]
Every single one of those answers includes a gigantic assumption, which is that there is a "you" that is born, dies, goes somewhere (or not), etc.
No, it is not an assumption, it is an inescapable tautology, a self-proving argument.

There are only two things - invariant axioms - which are, sine qua non automatically proven and require no assumption: (1) that the observer exists (if I did not exist I could not start this conversation nor add to it). (2) That there is something else beyond me as the observer which, for lack of a better name, is "reality."

I exist, and I know this beyond a shadow of a doubt and to an absolute certainty, or this conversation could not be taking place, thus proving axiom #1. I cannot offer the same guarantees about you, a portion of my mind could, in theory, be fabricating all of you. I believe as a strong assumption this is incorrect, but even if it was, that part of my mind simulating reality would of necessity have to exist to do that, thus proving axiom #2.

This also applies to you, in that you are conscious and perceive a reality around you. You exist and so does external reality to you for the axioms stated above for the same reasons I provided with respect to myself.

I believe strongly in the assumption that reality around me is real and substantial because I have no alternative. I have nothing else available to replace it, and if I fail to follow its rules and it is actual reality, I will die, and thus cease to continue as a part of the reality I have scorned.
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that no one learns the lessons of history. tdarcos@tdarcos.com

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Post by pinback » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:50 am

Tdarcos wrote:that the observer exists
Where is that observer? Is the observer ever touched, felt, experienced directly?

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Post by Tdarcos » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:19 pm

pinback wrote:
Tdarcos wrote:that the observer exists
Where is that observer?
As best I can pinpoint it, somewhere behind my eyes and about at ear level. Or maybe a little higher. Where it is in your case may vary.
pinback wrote:Is the observer ever touched, felt, experienced directly?
All of the time. At least while I've been conscious, anyway.

But the fact remains you can't deny the observer - the entity which you are - without simply shutting up, making no statements and crawling off to die. In order to argue the point whether you have existence, you have to accept the axiom that you exist in order to even argue the point to begin with. You can't argue otherwise; to do so is a logical impossibility.

Or maybe you can. Show me. Without using the concepts of existence, show how you fail to meet that quality. (Don't bother, once you set one character on the screen you've already conceded the point.)

As long as you are conscious you are conscious of something. (You can't be conscious of nothing; you have to experience something to be conscious of it.) You are an observer of reality to the extent your senses provide it to you. They may be in error or you may misinterpret what you perceive - some really cool optical illusions depend on tricking your senses - but you still have to exist in the first place to experience them.

Or to even comment about it.
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that no one learns the lessons of history. tdarcos@tdarcos.com

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Post by pinback » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:31 pm

Tdarcos wrote:but you still have to exist in the first place to experience them.
Sure. We can say "I am experiencing this". But what is the I? Is it a person named Paul?

The person named Paul is just a thought that you are experiencing. And a thought cannot experience things, only you can.

So, who and where is the observer?

Who, and where, are you?

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Post by pinback » Mon May 18, 2015 3:20 pm

There have been many, many books written over thousands and thousands of years on this topic. Every couple months, it seemed, I would find a new "favorite". Some that have made the list have been:

"The Power of Now" - Eckhart Tolle
"This Is Unimaginable And Unavoidable" - Guy Smith
"An Extraordinary Absence" - Jeff Foster
"No Mud, No Lotus" - Thich Nhat Hahn
"The Diamond That Cuts Through Illusion" - Buddha
"Nothing Being Everything" - Tony Parsons

This one is my new favorite and probably will be for a long time, because I don't think I'm going to read any more of these books. Although they're all written entirely differently, they are all pointing to the same thing, and once you see what they are pointing to, there's no need to read any more, or remember what any of them said. You can burn 'em.

Burn Nothing To Grasp last.

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