Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Chris H.'s Ultima / ACS-style game development system!

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Flack
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by Flack »

Tdarcos wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:46 am
My NAS is either a 3 or 4 TiB (the term for 1 trillion bytes, 1000^4, as opposed to 1 TB, 1024^4, about 99 billion more), I've used about 1.5 TiB. My Programming directory alone contained over 200,000 files in 66,000+ directories. So it would be nearer to 2 TB. I have a lot of interests in a lot of things. To protect it, I had two separate backup drives. I just didn't expect to end up flat on my back and having to depend on others to recover my stuff.

First I have to see if my NAS itself works, it got dropped again and while it's been OK before I want to check.
I know your brain is like a sieve but two months ago we had a conversation about you sending it to me to (a) make sure it still worked and (b) moving the contents to the cloud so you could access it from your tablet.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by RetroRomper »

bryanb wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:25 am
Suffice it to say I'm probably not going to be the ACK longplay guy.
Longplays are literally just you sitting down and flipping on the record button while you play and maybe a little bit of editing to splice your play sessions together. Is that too much?
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

Are you asking another guy to do work for you?

You wouldn't email 30 people about this as it was a bit much but you want Bryan B to figure out how to record game play for a DOS window that every video recording program is going to go DURRRRR on? (At least they all did for Hugo playthroughs, I can't imagine ACK is easier.)

This is what people meant the other day. You want people to do the work for projects you abandon.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by Tdarcos »

Flack wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:56 am
Tdarcos wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:46 am
My NAS is either a 3 or 4 TiB (the term for 1 trillion bytes, 1000^4, as opposed to 1 TB, 1024^4, about 99 billion more), I've used about 1.5 TiB. My Programming directory alone contained over 200,000 files in 66,000+ directories. So it would be nearer to 2 TB. I have a lot of interests in a lot of things. To protect it, I had two separate backup drives. I just didn't expect to end up flat on my back and having to depend on others to recover my stuff.

First I have to see if my NAS itself works, it got dropped again and while it's been OK before I want to check.
I know your brain is like a sieve but two months ago we had a conversation about you sending it to me to (a) make sure it still worked and (b) moving the contents to the cloud so you could access it from your tablet.
I remember that but I thought it was a copy to a separate hard drive. The thing is, there's next to nothing usable on a tablet, my word processing files used Word Perfect, 3D models all used Trimble Sketchup, and so on, files all worked on with PC-based tools.

Beyond that, there are other issues. I'm not about to try to download a terabyte-and-a-half of files off the cloud, even over broadband. I have a 4TB USB-powered backup drive I planned to send with it but I wanted to collect packing material to protect the NAS during shipping so it isn't damaged in transit.

Anoher part of the reason I don't want it backed up to the cloud is that there are certain private files containing confidential information I don't want to expose to the world.

No, that's not a euphemism for my porn collection; that's in a different directory from my confidential files. The porn stuff is just interesting things from PornTube that I wouldn't care if others saw it.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by pinback »

There is zero chance anyone in the universe would care about any of your private files containing confidential information.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by Flack »

Tdarcos wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:42 pm
Flack wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:56 am
Tdarcos wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:46 am
My NAS is either a 3 or 4 TiB (the term for 1 trillion bytes, 1000^4, as opposed to 1 TB, 1024^4, about 99 billion more), I've used about 1.5 TiB. My Programming directory alone contained over 200,000 files in 66,000+ directories. So it would be nearer to 2 TB. I have a lot of interests in a lot of things. To protect it, I had two separate backup drives. I just didn't expect to end up flat on my back and having to depend on others to recover my stuff.

First I have to see if my NAS itself works, it got dropped again and while it's been OK before I want to check.
I know your brain is like a sieve but two months ago we had a conversation about you sending it to me to (a) make sure it still worked and (b) moving the contents to the cloud so you could access it from your tablet.
I remember that but I thought it was a copy to a separate hard drive. The thing is, there's next to nothing usable on a tablet, my word processing files used Word Perfect, 3D models all used Trimble Sketchup, and so on, files all worked on with PC-based tools.

Beyond that, there are other issues. I'm not about to try to download a terabyte-and-a-half of files off the cloud, even over broadband. I have a 4TB USB-powered backup drive I planned to send with it but I wanted to collect packing material to protect the NAS during shipping so it isn't damaged in transit.

Anoher part of the reason I don't want it backed up to the cloud is that there are certain private files containing confidential information I don't want to expose to the world.

No, that's not a euphemism for my porn collection; that's in a different directory from my confidential files. The porn stuff is just interesting things from PornTube that I wouldn't care if others saw it.
You're right. It has literally been so long that I had forgot the details.

I will create a separate thread on Monday (so as not to derail the effort to save and preserve ACK) and then bump it once a week as a reminder. Do you have any prediction as to when you would mail the hardware? I will write down my own prediction.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

pinback wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:59 pm
There is zero chance anyone in the universe would care about any of your private files containing confidential information.
This is true. Commander Tansin A. Darcos is a man that cannot be shamed or doxxed. He is The Infinite Man.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by RetroRomper »

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:24 am
Are you asking another guy to do work for you?

You wouldn't email 30 people about this as it was a bit much but you want Bryan B to figure out how to record game play for a DOS window that every video recording program is going to go DURRRRR on? (At least they all did for Hugo playthroughs, I can't imagine ACK is easier.)

This is what people meant the other day. You want people to do the work for projects you abandon.
1. I'm asking another guy to do work I don't have time to do who already seemed interested in preservation and though he politely declined, I'm asking him if simply recording his play through's would be possible with no expectation for anything.

2. I said earlier in this or another thread that I was going to work on PMing the 30 or so people this weekend and I'm working on the message that will be sent alongside the Google Form right now.

3. Delegating. You can argue that it's telling people what to do, but I don't have the time nor patience to take on the entire scope of this sort of thing. My scope being to collect as many ACK games as possible, centralize them and perhaps create a list and some thumbnails maybe and find them a long term home while also datting them and getting them into as many hands as possible so they aren't lost.

I already have ideas for every stage I'm taking on, but it's doubtful I'll ever play any of the actual games, so I'm trying to get BryanB to help and simply record his game screen while he plays, the latter which he was going to do already.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by RetroRomper »

After I'm done with that part of the project, I'll throw myself face first down the two floors of stairs in the house so I don't need to hear about having "abandoned" the fucking project for the fifth time here and the 20,000th one online. The last of which were held over my head without telling me actually what the problems were, so instead I was banned indiscriminately because of how my work was perceived.

I appreciate Flack having given me the rundown on the image I was projecting because that answered alot of questions, but someone else can put in the HOURS needed to save your fucking games if I'm going to have a life lesson projected onto me every other message while I'm doing the actual work.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

I see. You have explained your position in a way that makes me understand it where I previously did not. It makes sense now.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by pinback »

Nobody cares about game preservation, and that's the very, very last thing you should be concerned about, unless all of your insane ramblings are just you doing a bit. Which it's a good one, and I'm still about 60/40 on it being a bit.

But it's time to stop with this nonsense.

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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by bryanb »

Retro, you didn't abandon anything here. There's nothing to feel bad about and absolutely no reason for anyone to send any criticism your way. All you're really doing is passing the ACK archive baton to someone else...ME! I've been experiencing urges to create shitty-looking, super primitive basic HTML websites (the only kind I know how to make) ever since we brought RFTK back. This sounds like just the kind of aesthetic that could go well with a deliberately understated game creation system like ACK. You're helping me out here by giving me a way to express myself in really bad HTML. Thanks, friend!

What I end up creating will not hold a candle to your project, but it'll get the job done and no one will commit suicide in the process. I was thinking pouring yourself into a project like this might be a good thing for you, but now I've come to the opposite conclusion. You went in too deep, and things got too intense. It also didn't seem to be something that was bringing you much joy. Video games are supposed to be fun, and they're supposed to be played. The way you poured yourself into this just to bring other people happiness at the expense of your own was awesome and admirable, but I think our ACK archive ought to be created by someone who likes and plays the games. No one wanted you to sacrifice yourself for our sake or for this project.

The more that I think about it the more it seems like I'm probably the right person for this job. If I was named Bryan C, I'd be Bryan Chill. I also have a fantastic track record of abandoning projects without jumping down stairs. So, uh...anyone want to help out? We probably won't be doing any longplays.

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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by RetroRomper »

Not at all Bryan - if I seem annoyed, it's because this whole "failed project" thing touched a very raw nerve that has yet to heal. I've actually been having a great deal of fun with this (see the Google Form Header) and enjoy the project management and analytical parts of this: what taking on the ACK torch has done, is to remind myself that I can still tribute meaningfully (if not as impact fully) on my own.

Flack's overview was beyond helpful and made me sad that people see me that way, when it's mostly I work so quickly that I dismiss aspects of projects or the whole form if it's obvious the process to get to where it needs to be, is truly too complicated. Like, I can jump from one idea to another and there are large parts of that, which are due to my impulsivity, but I also think and process things that quickly.
bryanb wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:38 pm
So, uh...anyone want to help out? We probably won't be doing any longplays.
No.. I'm still doing my part and we'll see if we need to expand on that. Even though I'm at considerable odds with them Bryan, I'd create an article and submit it to https://www.gamingalexandria.com/ as a guest contributor: it'll gain much more exposure and be part of a larger party of work, instead of being another forgotten niche website that no one even knows exists (I've seen several hundred if not thousands of them at this point). It'll also let you focus your energy into one dedicated form of ACK as opposed to stretching it thin on creating a whole site.

Same effort, far more return.

And anyone can create a "long play" or any play video at all as all they've to do is play and remember to record. Not a big thing to ask.

Anyway... I've seen so many of the kind of websites you've noted die or be forgotten, that I'm against the idea at this point unless the history and background is so dense, but then you can simply write a series of articles or a book with websites being for very specialized information.

The scope I set for myself may also sound relatively low effort, but let's take the whole preserving these games, because that means:

1. They'll be submitted to a video game database effort.
2. They'll be datted and added as part of a set that anyone can download and will.
3. Quite a bit of metadata will need to be added and I'll do part of it or at least create a template to let others work on it.
4. Approach another Adventure Creation like system's community site / database to see if they'd be willing to add the ACK games to it.

Plus I tend to believe in that anything can be done with something you have and is available: the first priority is to solicit and obtain as many games, assets, etc. as possible from the ACK community as otherwise there won't be anything to work with. This has put me at odds with others because I'm very detail oriented, focused, and do work quickly most of the time, for a few things it is in a very linear manner as it's hitting milestones leading to a larger return.

My thoughts on the matter, but I'm straight up with you on this Bryan - we just need to do things one at a time and then branch out from there, figuring out what is the biggest return on our effort and time.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by RetroRomper »

And the torch is inside of all of us: a Project needs a Leader and an Owner, but they aren't the same person for very good reasons. This isn't a solo activity, but a team one.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by RetroRomper »

pinback wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:59 pm
There is zero chance anyone in the universe would care about any of your private files containing confidential information.
More nervous about what he's "collected" from Heavy R or wherever.
pinback wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:15 pm
Nobody cares about game preservation, and that's the very, very last thing you should be concerned about, unless all of your insane ramblings are just you doing a bit. Which it's a good one, and I'm still about 60/40 on it being a bit.

But it's time to stop with this nonsense.

Let's Save & Preserve RetroRomper!
I agree with you man, but I'm scared to let it go because it's what has defined me for the longest time now and given me a purpose. Otherwise it's just dragging my feet and waiting to die, being worried about time slipping away while it does without my knowledge. I do need to take a big breather and not find "little things" to do here and there, but right now this is in a place where it's been fun and is obvious how to finish it.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by bryanb »

RetroRomper wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:23 pm
Not at all Bryan - if I seem annoyed, it's because this whole "failed project" thing touched a very raw nerve that has yet to heal.
My main concern is that you didn't seem annoyed...you sounded suicidal inasmuch as you literally said you would kill yourself once you finished "part of the project." Your life is more important than your work in video game preservation (though I'm the last person who would say video game preservation is unimportant). You need to look out for yourself here. If this isn't healthy for you, let yourself stop. No will blame you. Flack's a good guy and a friend. I'm 100% sure he doesn't want to see you fail or anything bad to happen to you. You realize Flack literally has ACK within his user name, right? That alone makes him more awesome than the rest of us. I can talk to him if you're concerned about his reaction to all this.

We can stop the "abandoned the project" meme by creating something, even if it's just a version of Chris' site with some extra downloads. You got the ball rolling here and will have inspired anything ACK-related I do. It'll be a successful project no matter what. If you want to keep working on your larger, more ambitious project, I'm not sure that means I shouldn't go ahead with my little archive unless you feel that would be taking the wind out of your sails. All I want to do is reduce the pressure on you and provide a nice service for the ACK user base at the same time.

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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

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bryanb wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:46 am
You realize Flack literally has ACK within his user name, right? That alone makes him more awesome than the rest of us.
Well, apart from Pinback who also has ACK within his user name.

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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by RetroRomper »

bryanb wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:46 am
All I want to do is reduce the pressure on you and provide a nice service for the ACK user base at the same time.
1. I'm strangely not suicidal - the statement about throwing myself down the stairs so that I'd break my neck was hyperbolic (hard to tell, I know).
2. The two things that would be most beneficial right now are:

-- Working on an article as there is quite a bit you could talk about aside from specific games.
-- Longplay videos of what there is available.

I'd suggest working on the article as opposed to the website: you could even do two articles with one around the origins, history, etc. of ACK itself and then a second as offering mini-reviews of each and every game. Now that I'm thinking about it, I know someone that would be willing to handle the longplays for us, but I'd like to send some money her way.

Say $10 per longplay and there are three games in Chris's file repository right now, so would you be willing to split $30 with me for the time being? Otherwise, please for the love of God do not built a website: documenting the actual history in an article is far more important and a better funnel for your time and energy.
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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by bryanb »

RetroRomper wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:39 am
1. I'm strangely not suicidal - the statement about throwing myself down the stairs so that I'd break my neck was hyperbolic (hard to tell, I know).
That was my main concern so it's a huge relief to hear you say that. Suicide is off the table. Good to know!

You sound engaged and serious about this which is great. I think you deserve the opportunity to see your vision through, and I'm very interested in seeing what you ultimately come up with. The difficulty we'd run into as collaborators is that our instincts tell us to do things in completely opposite ways. I wouldn't trust third party sites to host scattered articles and files. I'd want to have a home base for the effort and centralize the content. I'll put my plans to create an ACK site on hold in deference to your plans, but I'm perfectly willing to revive it later on if things don't go as expected.

I get that you see this as a community effort because you need the community's help to track down ACK games and information, but I think I'd inevitably try to move the project in a different direction incompatible with your vision so I'm going to bow out of this for now. We definitely don't see eye to eye on longplays. To me they are abominations and I have no interest in creating or funding them. The article idea is more interesting, but I think we'd really need Chris and Garth to fill in some of the gaps.

Good luck with the project! Keep us posted on your progress.

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Re: Let's Save & Preserve ACK!

Post by The Happiness Engine »

The Let's Plays I watch are ones with a lot of good editing, so if I'm curious about a game I can get the actual good bits from 10 hours of grinding distilled down into 20 minute of video. I understand for games I actually want to play not doing this but for games I know I never will play it's a way to squeeze the enjoyment down into the time I have.

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