Big Jake (1971)

Movies & Sex

Moderators: AArdvark, Ice Cream Jonsey

User avatar
Flack
Posts: 8822
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Big Jake (1971)

Post by Flack »

There's something to be said about a movie that lays its plot out in the first five minutes. Before I had settled into my seat, a group of ruthless outlaws had kidnapped Little Jake, taken him to Mexico, and asked for a million dollars for his safe return. By the time I had opened my beer, estranged patriarch Big Jake (John Wayne), along with his two sons, Sam Sharpnose the Indian, and a dog named Dog had set out to bring Little Jake home alive.

My parents loved John Wayne movies, but boy were things changing quickly. Other movies released in 1971, the same year as Big Jake, included THX-1138, The Andromeda Strain, Vanishing Point, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, A Clockwork Orange, and
Dirty Harry. This was three years after 2001: A Space Odyssey was released, and you would think old school westerns would have seemed dated by then. Maybe they did.

John Wayne, as a man, has not aged well. His racist and homophobic views were exposed in a Playboy interview that frankly lost him a few fans and gained him some others. As recently as last month there were calls to rename John Wayne Airport. The argument whether an artist can be separated from his work continues. Is John Wayne an American icon, a racist jerk, or both?

Likewise, Wayne's character, John "Big Jake" McCandles, is equally flawed. He's abandoned his wife and family, and has three adult sons who would just as soon punch him than shake his hand, but at the end of the day, it is Jake's plan, and leadership, that leads his rag tag crew to where they've taken his grandson, and it's the Duke himself who rides into the camp alone to make the swap.

I've only watched a couple of John Wayne films, but they all harken back to a simpler time. The conflicts are set up early, the journey is simple, and the good guy wins in the end. If only life were so simple.

PS: In 1969, John Wayne won the Academy Award for Best Actor for his role in Big Jake.
"I failed a savings throw and now I am back."

User avatar
Flack
Posts: 8822
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by Flack »

PS: In 1970, John Wayne won the Academy Award for Best Actor for his role in True Grit, and didn't win jack shit in 1969.

"I failed a savings throw and now I am back."

User avatar
bryanb
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:56 pm

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by bryanb »

Flack wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:03 am The argument whether an artist can be separated from his work continues. Is John Wayne an American icon, a racist jerk, or both?
I'd go with both. I have a certain admiration for the way John Wayne made the absolute most out of his career. He was an actor with limited range who brought much the same persona to most movies he was in. That certainly doesn't give you automatic icon status, but his approach was distinctive enough and he worked hard enough to make it happen (he appeared in 169 movies according to Wikipedia and definitely wasn't an immediate star). When he tried to do something different in The Conqueror, he was deservedly savaged for it. I don't think that particularly changed him, though. He just went right back to being John Wayne. American perseverance and swagger personified. That he held racist and sexist views behind the scenes makes a kind of sense, sad though it is.

Casual Observer
Posts: 3266
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:23 pm
Location: Everett, WA, 2 blocks from where the Green River Killer picked them up

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by Casual Observer »

I like the fact that John Wayne couldn't act when sober.

User avatar
Flack
Posts: 8822
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by Flack »

bryanb wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:20 am When he tried to do something different in The Conqueror, he was deservedly savaged for it.
You're talking about the cancer, right?
"I failed a savings throw and now I am back."

User avatar
Tdarcos
Posts: 9333
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Contact:

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by Tdarcos »

Flack wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:03 am Other movies released in 1971, the same year as Big Jake, included THX-1138, The Andromeda Strain, Vanishing Point, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, A Clockwork Orange, and
Dirty Harry.
Hey! I've seen all olf these! Some even when they first came out in theatres. THX-1138 was a sci-fi movie with a premise similar to Logan's Run, and George Lucas' first film, Vanishing Point was a pointless chase film, A Clockwork Orange I saw probably 30 years later, a story of sadistic nihilism. Willy Wonka and Andromeda Strain were both excellent.
Flack wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:03 am PS: In 1969, John Wayne won the Academy Award for Best Actor for his role in Big Jake.
How exactly do you win the Academy Award in 1969 for a film that wasn't even made or released until 1971?
Alan Francis wrote a book containing everything men understand about women. It consisted of 100 blank pages.

User avatar
bryanb
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:56 pm

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by bryanb »

Tdarcos wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:29 am How exactly do you win the Academy Award in 1969 for a film that wasn't even made or released until 1971?
We're all (mostly) friends here. We're all (mostly) reasonable people as well. When you see someone who sends you delicious goodies in the mail make a minor mistake in a post and then immediately correct it, wouldn't you say the proper thing to do in that situation would be to just let it slide? If the record needs to be corrected, then by all means you should correct it. We wouldn't want anyone reading this message board not to know which John Wayne movie won awards and which didn't -- I'm not an extremist! It's just that when the record has already been corrected the dreaded double correction is rarely needed.

User avatar
Tdarcos
Posts: 9333
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Contact:

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by Tdarcos »

bryanb wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:50 am
Tdarcos wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:29 am How exactly do you win the Academy Award in 1969 for a film that wasn't even made or released until 1971?
We're all (mostly) friends here. We're all (mostly) reasonable people as well. When you see someone who sends you delicious goodies in the mail
Stop right there. Bryan, I'm not going to walk on eggshells. If someone wants to send me something I will accept and thank the person, but It's not going to buy my silence[1] or cause me to change my reactions for fear they won't give me more treats. I presume to treat everyone equally, and if a little good-natured ribbbing is that bothersome to them, well, I think they need thicker akin.
bryanb wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:50 am make a minor mistake in a post
Well, it wasn't a minor mistake. What is the title of this thread? Three words: Big Jake (1971). While writing the article he forgot the title of the article, which to me seems hilarious.
bryanb wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:50 am and then immediately correct it, wouldn't you say the proper thing to do in that situation would be to just let it slide?
Oh come on Bryan, do you really think he's bothered by my little comment? In the message just above yours he implied that John Wayne's portrayal of Gengis Khan was so bad he deserved getting cancer. I really think Flack is made of sterner stuff.
bryanb wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:50 am If the record needs to be corrected, then by all means you should correct it. We wouldn't want anyone reading this message board not to know which John Wayne movie won awards and which didn't -- I'm not an extremist! It's just that when the record has already been corrected the dreaded double correction is rarely needed.
Except it wasn't fully corrected (or there might have been a second reason). There were two errors (or maybe three, depending on how you count them) in his statement. 1. That it won an Academy Award. 2. That it won an award in 1969. And possibly 3. 1969 was 2 years before the movie was made. Flack corrected the first one, but forgot to mention if he even noticed his original argument was an impossibility.

If I said that the Bowling Green Massacre occurred on February 29, 2014, then I correct this in another message because I discover there was no Bowling Green Massacre, wouldn't it be reasonable to point out to me that February, 2014 only had 28 days?

Actually, i didn't ask the question just to highlight the error, but because he has such a wicked sense of humor I suspected he might be trolling us: he corrects the error about the Academy Award, then waits to see if anyone noticed that it would have been impossible for a 1971 film to win any award for 1969. I'm not saying he was trolling, but it would be really funny if he was. I'm giving more credibility to the proposition that he simply forgot.



[1] At least not that cheaply. Had it been Happiness Engine, for him I might have been a little less attentive to error. Large donors get more leeway. I'm really ashamed about my acceptance of snacks to bribe me.

As I have said, "i am saddened, ashamed, sickened, and disgusted that I was willing to accept bribes. On not because I accepted bribes; anyone with less wealth than people like Carlos Slim or Bill Gates can be bribed. No, what saddened, ashamed, sickened, and disgusted me was I could b4 bribed so cheaply!
Alan Francis wrote a book containing everything men understand about women. It consisted of 100 blank pages.

User avatar
bryanb
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:56 pm

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by bryanb »

Flack wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:03 am PS: In 1969, John Wayne won the Academy Award for Best Actor for his role in Big Jake.
Oh, REALLY? Is this some kind of time traveling motion picture? It was made in 1971 and then jumped back to win an award in 1969! If so, isn't that the real story here? We trusted you to provide us quality, thoroughly fact-checked movie information that is 100% correct on first draft, and then you BETRAYED us in this shocking manner. For shame, Flack, for shame! At this rate, we may have to take away the keys to your home theater soon.

User avatar
bryanb
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:56 pm

Re: Big Jake (1971)

Post by bryanb »

Tdarcos wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:58 pm Oh come on Bryan, do you really think he's bothered by my little comment? In the message just above yours he implied that John Wayne's portrayal of Gengis Khan was so bad he deserved getting cancer. I really think Flack is made of sterner stuff.
I had forgotten this myself, but there's actually more to the cancer joke (much like every other really well-crafted cancer joke). The Conqueror was apparently shot downwind of a nuclear testing site in Utah, and many people who worked on the film, both cast and crew, ended up getting cancer. Skeptics say many of the people who ended up getting cancer were heavy smokers as well, including John Wayne himself, so it isn't possible to definitively say that the cancer was caused by the shooting location. Also, given a long enough time frame, a lot of people are going to get cancer. Still, the list is pretty stark: director Dick Powell died of cancer in 1963, actor Pedro Armendariz killed himself in 1963 when he learned his cancer was terminal, and stars John Wayne, Susan Hayward, and Agnes Morehead all died of cancer in the 1970s. Even a surprising number of relatives who visited the set during filming ended up getting cancer. Guilt over being involved in such a bad film no doubt played a role as well, but they probably would have been better off shooting the film on location in Mongolia. What's the worst that could have happened there, an outbreak of bubonic plague?

Post Reply