by pinback » Fri May 15, 2020 5:26 pm
Tdarcos wrote: ↑Fri May 15, 2020 3:44 pm
pinback wrote: ↑Fri May 15, 2020 2:40 pm
Did we get an answer to the question, by the way? Can we wrap this one up?
Ben, I want to look more at your answer. I think what you are saying is we remain part of a universal consciousness
Ultimately, I am saying there is no "we" to remain or not. I am specifically answering the question in the title of this thread. But I appreciate your inquisitiveness!
and our looking at this world caused us to believe we're a separate entity from that consciousness.
That's right. There is a thought/feeling that "I am", but the "I" is mis-attributed to a conceptual, fictional separate entity subject to and apart from the consciousness, rather than the consciousness itself.
But, does the information we collect and the process (you, having done programming would understand proocesses) still remain?
You are asking what changes or remains after a certain event in time (our death), and I am asserting that the event never occurs. You
believe the event occurs because you've identified with the body you see below you, and bodies stop working after a while.
Like when a uniprocessor computer task switches, the particular process running your terminal, or batch job, is just bookkeeping, there isn't really a separate process, it's all the same execution handling all the jobs on the computer, and when a job ends, the system accounting files are updated (if accounting is used), but the bookkeping entries are just data records and are just repurposed for the next job.
That might be a reasonable metaphor, but I feel like you're still trying to find something in there we can draw a circle around and call "me" so we can find out what happens to it after it dies. However, if this is as far down the rabbit hole as we get, and this is common ground we can land on together, then I consider this discussion a rousing success.
Is your idea something like this?
To be clear, I am not talking about ideas, or theories. I am describing ultimate truth to you. What are the characteristics of ultimate truth? It (and
only it) is plainly verifiable in every moment -- and indeed, there is no multiplicity of moments, there is only
this. And all there ever is, is the current appearance of consciousness. Nothing inside or outside of it to experience it. No one there at all.
Since this truth is ultimate, you can verify it yourself, at any time, in any circumstance, by asking what I call
the most interesting question. Do not let the mind kill the question with a conceptual answer, a belief. Ask deeply.
Thank you for your time, Commander.
[quote=Tdarcos post_id=109170 time=1589582669 user_id=829]
[quote=pinback post_id=109166 time=1589578828 user_id=5]
Did we get an answer to the question, by the way? Can we wrap this one up?
[/quote]
Ben, I want to look more at your answer. I think what you are saying is we remain part of a universal consciousness[/quote]
Ultimately, I am saying there is no "we" to remain or not. I am specifically answering the question in the title of this thread. But I appreciate your inquisitiveness!
[quote]and our looking at this world caused us to believe we're a separate entity from that consciousness.[/quote]
That's right. There is a thought/feeling that "I am", but the "I" is mis-attributed to a conceptual, fictional separate entity subject to and apart from the consciousness, rather than the consciousness itself.
[quote]But, does the information we collect and the process (you, having done programming would understand proocesses) still remain?[/quote]
You are asking what changes or remains after a certain event in time (our death), and I am asserting that the event never occurs. You [i]believe[/i] the event occurs because you've identified with the body you see below you, and bodies stop working after a while.
[quote]Like when a uniprocessor computer task switches, the particular process running your terminal, or batch job, is just bookkeeping, there isn't really a separate process, it's all the same execution handling all the jobs on the computer, and when a job ends, the system accounting files are updated (if accounting is used), but the bookkeping entries are just data records and are just repurposed for the next job.[/quote]
That might be a reasonable metaphor, but I feel like you're still trying to find something in there we can draw a circle around and call "me" so we can find out what happens to it after it dies. However, if this is as far down the rabbit hole as we get, and this is common ground we can land on together, then I consider this discussion a rousing success.
[quote]Is your idea something like this?[/quote]
To be clear, I am not talking about ideas, or theories. I am describing ultimate truth to you. What are the characteristics of ultimate truth? It (and [i]only[/i] it) is plainly verifiable in every moment -- and indeed, there is no multiplicity of moments, there is only [i]this[/i]. And all there ever is, is the current appearance of consciousness. Nothing inside or outside of it to experience it. No one there at all.
Since this truth is ultimate, you can verify it yourself, at any time, in any circumstance, by asking what I call [url="http://onefountain.pinback.net/2020/01/01/the-most-interesting-question/"]the most interesting question[/url]. Do not let the mind kill the question with a conceptual answer, a belief. Ask deeply.
Thank you for your time, Commander.