What do you think killed pinball machines?

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Expand view Topic review: What do you think killed pinball machines?

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:44 pm

It has been and still is my favorite book.

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:44 pm

There should be a When Gravity Fails movie and pinball, but there is not.

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by Jizaboz » Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:32 pm

I want one of those old EM machines eventually. All of those 1970s and older games used a series of relay switches instead of PCBs.

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by AArdvark » Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:56 am

Ah, this one....



Image

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by AArdvark » Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:37 am

Oh, that game. Yes, it was in a sleazy bowling alley where my mom's league played on Wednesday nights. I vaguely remember horribly crashing the helicopter many times because I thought it was funny.

There was another game next to it, some rifle shooting game with electro-mechanical alien spaceships going back and forth

Re: Re:

by Flack » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:34 am

Tdarcos wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:18 am
AArdvark wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:34 pm You have to post a picture of the helicopter on a wand thing. It's not jogging my memory at all.


This forum doesn't honor YouTube links.

Re:

by Tdarcos » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:06 am

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:58 pm The price is insane, though, I will give you that. I got a $6000 tax return a few years ago and used $5500 of it for the Tron pin. The thing is, though, Stern (the manufacturer) employs a lot of people. I like that they exist.
Plus you got to again write off the $5,500 on your taxes, clever. Oh wait, you didn't because it's a "hobby" and hobby expenses are not deductible? You mean you didn't open "Ice Cream Jonsey's Pinball store" where you buy and sell pinball machines? Remember this: if you treat a hobby as a business, e.g. keep records on income (if any) vs. expenses, and kept records of your inventory, your hobby is now a business which the losses (and profits, if any) can be reported on schedule C, and you have three years to make a profit before the IRS can classify it as a hobby (rather than a business) and disallow the deduction. But, hey, if you don't make money in three years, you close down that business and start a new one! This is America, you can start a new business amytime. So switch from the pinball business to the electronic video game business, and start a new three-year period to try and make a profit. And if you travel to conventions or distant markets, your travel expenses are deductible.

I had my brother do that, open "Bill's Video Emporium" where he sold DVDs on-line. His prices were too high, of course - he's reselling what he bought at retail - and never made any sales. But he got to write off the 1,400 DVDs he bought for "inventory." That's over $20,000 he got to write off over 3 years. Just figure it saved him about $2,000 a year in taxes. After three years, he folded his business, but the tax savings he gets to keep.

So if you weren't doing that, consider it.
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:58 pm For me to ever buy a new one, it would either have to have a theme that appealed to me AND was a great pin (a Red Dwarf pin, a When Gravity Fails pin
I read the book "When Gravity Fails" by G.A. Effinger, about people who "jack in" to 7-player shared virtual reality pods; while the book was written years before it, the simulation is supposed to be perfect, i.e. as immersive as The Matrix. People actually have sex with others connected with them (but having no physical contact), the experience is supposedly indistinguishable from the real thing.

By sheer coincidence, a few years later, I was reading a copy of The Washington Post and in the obituaries - which I don't normally read - I saw his. Strange.

Of course, this pin may have nothing to do with his book.

Re:

by Tdarcos » Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:18 am

AArdvark wrote: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:34 pm You have to post a picture of the helicopter on a wand thing. It's not jogging my memory at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFPpaII8Qg

This forum doesn't honor YouTube links.

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by AArdvark » Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:46 am

It really was a bad take.

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by Flack » Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:55 am

Image

Re: Re:

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:09 pm

odyssia76 wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:19 am
Tdarcos wrote: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:07 pm
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: most pinball machines, essentially became obsolete.
No, it's the exact right word. The function of a pinball machine was / is to provide entertainment, That functionality is now pretty much a niche factor these days.
Silly boys. You are both right. You're assuming that something that is obsolete cannot still perform its function. Are vinyl records obsolete? Cassette tapes? Yes. But the sales of both are actually rising rapidly. If they are obsolete, then why is that?
It was like a bad take factory.

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by pinback » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:58 am

Image

VINYL RECORDS
[X] PRODUCED
[X] USED

PINBALL MACHINES
[X] PRODUCED
[X] USED

Re:

by odyssia76 » Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:19 am

Tdarcos wrote: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:07 pm
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: most pinball machines, essentially became obsolete.
No, it's the exact right word. The function of a pinball machine was / is to provide entertainment, That functionality is now pretty much a niche factor these days.
Silly boys. You are both right. You're assuming that something that is obsolete cannot still perform its function. Are vinyl records obsolete? Cassette tapes? Yes. But the sales of both are actually rising rapidly. If they are obsolete, then why is that?

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by AArdvark » Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:00 am

16K for a pinball machine? Whoosh!

How much do you think a Lion King machine would go for in Cameroon?

Re: What do you think killed pinball machines?

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:31 pm

Obsolete was not the right word. Milker just sold Deadpool for sixteen grand.

by Flack » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:38 am

Well, there's one that posts here from time to time...

by Tdarcos » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:32 am

Tdarcos wrote:
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Obsolete is not the right word because it's function isn't to "provide entertainment." That's a blanket statement that I am going to argue with.
Well, let's see how far you can get.
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:There's two objectives of a pinball machine. Maybe three:

1) To earn enough money to pay for itself and then generate profit for its owner.
Will this happen if the customers are not entertained by the pinball machine? If the device is dull or does not provide an interesting experience to the customer, i.e, be entertaining to them, will they spend money on it?
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:2) Be a collectible entertainment device. (Like how I got my Tron pin.)
Do you think collectors buy pinball machines - other than because someone they know would buy it from them at a profit - unless they also wanted to play with the machine, i.e. to be entertained by it?
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:3) Be an "attraction" that, while not making money for the owner, gives people a reason to buy drinks or whatnot at an establishment that has one.
Again, will customers come to a place simply because it has a pinball machine, or are they coming there to play the machine, i.e. to be entertained by it?
----
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by Ice Cream Jonsey » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:58 pm

Tdarcos wrote:No, it's the exact right word. The function of a pinball machine was / is to provide entertainment, That functionality is now pretty much a niche factor these days. The entertainment factor that pinball machines filled was replaced by video and computer games.
Obsolete is not the right word because it's function isn't to "provide entertainment." That's a blanket statement that I am going to argue with.

I was intentionally being dickish in the rest of my earlier reply, but I will be FOR REALS here.

There's two objectives of a pinball machine. Maybe three:

1) To earn enough money to pay for itself and then generate profit for its owner.

2) Be a collectible entertainment device. (Like how I got my Tron pin.)

3) Be an "attraction" that, while not making money for the owner, gives people a reason to buy drinks or whatnot at an establishment that has one.

#2 ain't obsolete because hobbyists are still buying them.

#3 isn't an obsolete function because barcades are everywhere.

Newer pins are unlikely to make their money back to where they are a good use of space, but there's plenty of old ones that do make money for their operators.

I will say that I had no idea that pinball machines cost as much as a new car, so, again, except for enthusiasts and specialized locations they're pretty much obsolete, replaced by other, more engaging entertainments.
The price is insane, though, I will give you that. I got a $6000 tax return a few years ago and used $5500 of it for the Tron pin. The thing is, though, Stern (the manufacturer) employs a lot of people. I like that they exist. For me to ever buy a new one, it would either have to have a theme that appealed to me AND was a great pin (a Red Dwarf pin, a When Gravity Fails pin, a Murder of JonBenet Ramsey pin) which is unlikely to ever happen.

Although Jersey Jack said they are going to make one designed by Pat Lawlor next year, so who knows. It's more likely I'd sell the Tron and use that as seed money for Lawlor's pin.

by AArdvark » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:32 pm

I want to hear more about pinball in Africa. Can you think of any Toto lyrics that apply?


THE
WILLIAMS EBOLA DELUXE
AARDVARK

by Tdarcos » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:02 pm

The Happiness Engine wrote:
Tdarcos wrote:Note that people still play slot machines (the greed factor, I guess) so despite the fact they're of the same sort of age as pinball machines they're still in use
Says the man who is unaware that video slots have replaced every mechanical slot machine to the point that mechanical slots are actually a special attraction at "The D" (really) in Vegas.
Says the man who never read what I originally wrote in the initial message:
I think it's like what has happened in the gaming world, while you can still find old fashioned mechanical "one armed bandit" slot machines, the newer machines provide more choices and more functionality such as video slots including more complicated games such as poker have become much more popular (and more lucrative for the device owner.)
Clearly, I pointed out that mechanicals are very rare, and what I said was that the one armed bandit has been around in one form or another at least as long as the pinball machine, but the slot machine is still around. And it's because of video machines and increased functionality resulting therefrom.

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