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The Top 100 Games of All Time
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AArdvark



Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 6052
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Din't Interplay also publish that Redneck Rampage game? The one where you boot it up and the first thing it says (at maximum volume and in a hilbilly accent) is "HO-LEEEE SHEEE-IT!!"

P'raps that has had some contribution to the downfall. rednecks don't drive computers. Rednecks drive pickup trucks and beat up cars. I call it marketing target error.

get back to the part about hookers, tho..


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HOO WHEE
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! And Redneck Rampage was a terrific game. Horribly dated these days, but fun at the time.

If it suffered at all it suffered from, "Here's all this buildup and now you're just a shotgun bobbing around like every other FPS game ever made and ever to come." There was that.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I got stuck again. This is a game I had actually written a review of before, too, but the review sucked. I won't let this go too long. We're almost in the top ten!
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#13 - I-0

Zcode



The magic of I-0 is that it lets you do anything.

It's the story of a girl, her pants and a car, but the car breaks down in the desert. It would have been impossible for me to write this game and that's probably why I am so fond of it. My version of I-0 would have featured someone swearing until the IF comp time limit was up, all based on what I would do if I ever blew a tire in the middle of goddamn nowhere. It takes a special author to realize that hitch-hiking your way to civilization is also another way to go.

You're Tracey Valencia and you are living in the scenario described above. Adam delivers a rich world where everything is described and works. Where all the real-world solutions you'd naturally expect to implement are reasonably available or frustrated. There's a fair number of ways to fail on your quest, but so many ways to go and paths to take that, upon death, you instantly want to give the game another shot and another play.

This was the second game I played when the Internet told me that IF still existed. The first was So Far, which did end up losing me, not that I blame anyone but my own ever-decreasing ability to comprehend what I read as I get older. After a long gaming layoff a game like I-0 will fill you up with enthusiasm and creativity that lasts for years. Even Pinner was making games when this thing came out. Every time I wondered if the author thought of "x," I discovered that the author did think of that, and more. I don't think an indie text game has surpassed I-0 to this day when it comes to that feeling of anticipation. It's the first game I recommend to people getting into the genre -- it's funny, it's fun and you can take your character's clothes off and tart your way through the game. How many mannerd hours have been spent trying to get other games in the same shape? Except Morrowind, of course, because most of those brothers are dogfaced. And by brothers I of course mean sisters.

There's three text games in the top 13, but I don't feel any shame or remorse because every last one of them is fun and every last one of them gives you the feeling (that GTA later grabbed) of being able to go anywhere and do anything. For only being a couple hours long that Jailbait on the Interstate game sure made it seem like an entire highway ride's worth of mischief, danger and streaking were crammed in there.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

#12 - MS. PAC-MAN

Arcade



Ms. Pac-Man is the rare game, I guess Sim City 2000 is another one, that improves upon the ware that came before it. Pac-Man isn't unplayable or anything in 2006, in fact, due to the fruits not moving (and as a result the player needs a stop watch in his head to go grab 'em before they disappear) it still has plenty of challenges, even if it is the same goddamn board each miserable quarter.

But Ms. is a fun "world" to be in. The pastel colors are fun to hang around and the cute little red-ball joystick all alone on the control panel, almost smug in its efficiency, is just... friendly. Approachable, I think they call it.

I'm not very good at the slow version of the game. I haven't seen the slow version "in the wild" in quite some time. Putting "in the wild" in quotes and having it be shorthand for the rest of the Northern Hemisphere is nerd talk and for that I apologize. In fact, although rec.collecting.video.games disagrees with me, I say the fast version - where Ms. Pac-Man is fast, to clarify - is the way to go and how everyone at General Computer intended it. Any other way is just the fat arcade owner trying to steal money from people and I just can't get behind that.

Oh! And the ghosts truly have a personality. I cannot stop laughing at the blue one, Inky, trying to go through the tunnel. You'd think that inside were a set of fresh rape claws. Blinky is relentless and Clyde... sorry, in this game he's a she called Sue... is the dumbest motherfucker to even be in a computer game, except for the goalie in NHLPA '93 (any team) (any system).

They're a good, fun loving bunch though. I mean Inky, Blinky, Pinky and Sue, not Ron Tugnutt and Peter Sidorkiewicz. Blinky is the one ghost that you'll eventually want to obtain revenge from when you start playing the thing as part of a routine. Oddly, I think the one I run into the second most is Sue, because she always seems to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and because I sometimes forget there is no "punch" button and I just generally hate women.

I've played more of this game than any other in 2006 and I can tell you that it's the 12th best game of all time. What can I say, cracking the top ten is tough. It was a star-studded century.
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Vitriola



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get that goddamn card table out of the picture.
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Jack Straw



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good show, old chap.
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AArdvark



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ms Pac Man cannot be played without a cheap card table nearby. The closer to the cabinet, the higher the players' scores. This fact has been documented here

Does anyone know of a pattern similar to the one in the original Pac Man that lets one flip the score?


THE
LEFT, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, THRU TUNNEL, ECT
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AArdvark wrote:
Does anyone know of a pattern similar to the one in the original Pac Man that lets one flip the score?


If you're on one of those Ms. Pac / Galaga anniversary boards, the Up Up Down Down Etc. code will let you play Pac-Man.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#11 - NHL '98

PC



Hockey is a sport that was made for video games and the live experience. Lucky in both senses, with how video games have taken off. They didn't stop publishing the NHL 9x or NHL2Kx series when there was a lockout, that's how unnecessary the actual game can be to video game hockey, which everyone except my brother loves.

I recognize now that EA was parcelling out features in this series. It really hasn't been worthwhile since NHL '98 and the 99 version sort of turned me off to video game hockey in general. The following elements make up a fantastic hockey game:

o Goalie Control. Nobody expects these games to be perfect, and the "fake one way and shoot the other" move is always going to work on these things. Like how Pinner says, "Just cut your TE across the middle of the field and he'll be open every time" when it comes to football games, the fake-then-shoot always works in these games. If I am playing with someone else and the game lets me "be" my goalie then I at least have a chance. It's alarming just how many EA Sports hockey games do not provide for this.

o Goalie Realism. Later versions of this game practically did a shot count. Oh, we at 30 yet? 31 is a GOOOOOOOOOOOALLLLL!!!!! No more goals until you get to shot #61! (And you will, in most hockey games made in the 21st Century. Great.)

o Fighting. Again, nobody expects Mortal Kombat out there... though a better fighting engine would be appreciated... but they took it out in some versions of the series for some stupid reason.

o Sense. I want there to be GODDAMN SENSE in a fake hockey game. Hear me out: I want, when I score a goal, to "know" that I have a great chance of it going in right before I shoot it. So many games today have no such thing - you perform the same offensive maneuver a dozen times and the game seemingly randomly picks one for the goalie to not respond to. Fuck that. NHL '98 gives you a sense that blue collar work paid off.

There are lots of great hockey games. We could go down the list. Hat Trick for the arcade is a lot of fun. I have never seen a cabinet available for sale, as those things take a beating. NES Hockey is good fun with the whole player girth feature. NHL Powerplay '96 almost made this list. And Jack Straw has said that NHL2K7 is actual fun. I need to rent it one of these days and try it out because Jack Straw is rarely wrong about these sorts of things. The life was truly sucked out in the Aughts due to the slimeball tactics that Electronic Arts generally employs. It's always one step forward and then one step back. They tread water. I couldn't tell you what features are lacking in their latest offering, but I'm pretty sure it's unplayable in one form or another. Ah, here we go, the publisher's best friend, IGN:

Quote:
Online play, in a word, sucks. In all the attempts we made, we could not get past the face off. The ref drops the puck, you make one pass and then the game returns you to the faceoff. Who knows? Maybe it's just our copy of the game, but our first-hand experience is that the title was unplayable online.


So I guess the version they removed from NHL 07 was "online play." It's only been, what, 12 years since Doom had it? Baby steps, EA. Baby steps.

I hate Electronic Arts with every molecule of my being and I actively avoid their horrible titles. They are the worst thing to happen to the hobby. That doesn't affect NHL 98, though, as it remains a masterpiece to this day.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Annnnnnnd there is a difference between "NHL 07" and "NHL2K7." Different companies. I really wish one of them would follow the way they did things in football and make MELROSE 2008 or DON CHERRY'S I HATE EUROPEANS 2008.
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Jack Straw



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. I don't want you to be disappointed, so let me just say that NHL2K7 is good enough that I've had the 7.5gb ISO of EA sport's "offering" on the computer since around the same time and have had no desire to waste a blank on it.
At the very least, it's nice that the announcers are off by default until you score/catch a penalty. Everyone just skates around checking everybody anyway so after the first couple games hearing "LEVELED!!!" constantly is grating.
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pinback



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you make his head bleed?
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#10 - CIVILIZATION II

IBM PC



Note! Civ 4 works here as well, either one. I played Civ 2 more, but I had a lot more free time back in 1995, so this one won. As a matter fact, let's get ... anecdotal!

The girl I was dating when this game came out was telling me that I was spending too much time playing video games. I don't remember what I should have been doing instead, because it certainly wasn't like she was out winning Nobel Prizes, but too many hours with games was bad. Or so I was told.

I'm either agreeable or a huge pussy, one or the other. I was working at an EB at the time. Yes, I always had a backpack on, just like the kids that came in to buy Magic cards. And I was in my early 20s... prime computer game playing time! Anyway, I think I did promise that I would tone it down a little. Civ 2 came up, I do believe. I was playing that one too much.

Almost right after promising this my backpack fell over and out jutted a Civ 2 expansion pack that I had grabbed from work. Ha ha ha, thud.

Thud.

Civ 2 is such a fantastic, timeless game that my brother, to this day, will still spend copious amounts of hours playing it, and he is not a big fan of most modern day non-sports games. (This does not mean too much if you are not his brother, I realize.)

Civ was, like many games towards the top of this list, a complete life-stopper when it came out. I bought it based on the shrieking recommendations of my co-workers. They all loved the first Civ. That, my friends, is fucking hardcore, digging the original and all. My co-workers got it the day it shipped and there were a lot of unshaven faces and unkempt hair in the days that followed. More so than normal, natch. Well, I'm only human so I picked it up as well and they were totally correct. Building your country from one fertile caveman, (don't immediately go towards nuking) nuking the fuck out of people, (god fucking dammit, save this with an "and everything in between") dropping multiple nukes on the same civ and same city (dammit) and everything in between is amazing.

It is an amazing piece of work.

You can play it forever. I think the thing most people did when they eventually became irritated with Civ 3 is go right back and play Civ 2. I bet sales spiked.

Civ 4 exists now and it looks like they got rid of a lot of stupid crap that people didn't like about the earlier games, to go with important people. I am certain that you can add important people into Civ 4 by now (I mean, come on) and I will look forward to the next game I play where, finally, I can have the true leaders of the world in MY civilization: Moses, Da Vinci, Roaf.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That review sucked because I didn't mention the grainy video that made up your advisors ("I disagree, your excellency") or the "I have enjoyed this tete-a-tete" line or the bit where computer pulls a "Dr. Evil." Let me explain:

If you propose some terms to one of the computer-controlled civilizations and the leader of that civ is full of himself, he will DECLINE your terms, chuckle up his sleeves and a sound effect that goes "OHHHHH!!!" but with an orchestra plays. It makes you want to nuke and nuke and nuke and nuke

and nuke and nuke and nuke

them.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

#9 - TALES OF THE UNKNOWN VOLUME I: THE BARD'S TALE

IBM PC



The Bard's Tale is a game about being trapped in a city completely snowed in under the hateful fascism of a Wizard's eternal winter. It was a big hit all along Western New York for just that reason, I suspect.

Inside the game are all the trappings of the world's most perfect role playing game. A perfectly balanced spell system. Plenty of bad guys that still evoke imagery, especially when they are getting hit with the previously mentioned perfectly balanced spell system -- Mangar's Mind Jab on 4 groups of 99 berserkers took forever to describe and forever to play out but was just as funny when the 396th guy was hit as the first. Character classes with sufficient unique qualities that rewarded experimentation. It's no less hot to see what's going on under the dress of the monk class than it is for that tweenager hottie to see what's going on underneath her best friend's skirt during a --

OK, it's a little less hot.

But much like teaching sexual crossover, The Bard's Tale is comical in just how difficult it can be at the very beginning. Random encounters can happen at any time and your guys suck in talent and experience when they first head out from the Adventurer's Guild. It's only three squares to Garth's Weapons shop, but I lost about fifty characters on the way. Barbarians were the primary enemy agents doing their best to block the way to Garth's with corpses piled high like cords of wood for a Mangar winter, and come to think of it the kobolds were a problem as well. What kind of game makes kobolds fierce? They are dog people, and toy dogs at that. But with 8 lousy hit points and the -2 Shit Armor they give you at the beginning of the Bard's Tale, they might as well be Genghis Khan, John Wayne Gacy and The Emperor. The Bard's Tale couldn't give a shit. The manual freely tells you to back your guys up with your "favorite disk copy utility." Use it, don't use it, they don't care. They're not going to provide it or anything, but go ahead and COPYIIPC your heart out.

This game also makes the Japanese RPG completely moot. I can't put something like FF3 on this list when the interface for the Bard's Tale accomplishes everything that FF did with less waiting around for the retarded concept of "limit breaks." If I have to put a game's unique feature in quotes then fuck that genre. I have tried to play a Japanese-style RPG on no less than a dozen occasions and I keep coming back to the thought that the game would go much faster if it just gave me a text box. There's a wee bit more tension at first while you wait until you can attack again, but come on, I'm going places and I want you to all come with me. We don't have time to wait. The best argument against Counter-Strike is a five minute chat session with the average Counter-Strike player and likewise, every JRPG would be better... IMHO! ... if it simply cribbed the BT interface like Devil's Whiskey did.

The list goes on! You don't get the sort of package, these days, that BT gave you. I'll say it: the manual is funny, complete and interesting, but the hint guide to the Bard's Tale is the single most touching piece of literature ever associated with video games.

Quote:
We are defeated at the last. The silver shapes were the key to entering the main chamber wherein resides a gloating Mangar. We are trapped like rats in a tiny room where even now the wizard sends his minions to storm
the door.

But we are given wise counsel by Soriac, who advises us to try to get this journal to Pellis, in the hope that he will pass on the experiences written here to one capable of defeating Mangar. One final spell, using the life forces of Soriac, Corfid, and myself, will render Isli invisible for a time, enabling her to escape this place with the journal. Yet it is evil magic. Everything we have accomplished will be rent from the fabric of time and destroyed, and as the spell burns itself out Isli will be consumed.

I embrace my companions, and taste the salt of Isli's tears. Ghaklah has asked for my dagger -- he has no wish to be captured alive. As he prepares the spell, I can but reflect that no man could wish to die in better company.

Ghaklah begins. They come.


That's at the end of an enormous strategy guide. Most game writing is terrible. If I ever write anything anything as good as that closing bit I'll die a happy man.

And admittedly, my positive experiences with this game are also somewhat personal. My brother and I originally played this thing on the CGA monitor we had with our PCjr. The rest of you bastards were seeing color with your tricked-out Apple IIs and Atari 400s, but we were pretty much stuck in black, white, cyan and magenta. One day, without any warning, Dad came home with an EGA monitor. We FLIPPED OUT. It was one of the greatest surprises of my childhood. The thing could only do 16 colors, but we didn't care -- although the PCjr could do 16 colors it was at a crappy resolution and most PC games didn't support it. They'd knock you back down to 4 color CGA. That all changed with the EGA display. Dad could have brought home a bunch of gold scepters and we wouldn't have been much happier. Well, scepters are pretty fly, who am I to speak off the cuff like that.

Anyway, three last things. The town in BT was called "Skara Brae" and Ultima 6 had the audacity to put a Skara Brae in the country side of Britannia. I know there's a real city called Skara Brae, but come on. I can't rank the Ultima series higher than the Bard's Tale if they are going to pull stuff like that. I made a game that took place in Las Vegas. I understand that Revenger should be behind Intellivision's Las Vegas Poker and Blackjack on any list. I accept that. The sequel to the Bard's Tale is one of the best goddamn games ever made in its own right -- it's got multiple cities, more music and spells, real-time levels and save anywhere. I give the nod to the original because it recreates the feeling of being trapped in a city a little better because, well, there is only one city. And lastly, most of the map to Fallacy of Dawn is a direct port of the map of Skara Brae from the original Bard's Tale. I'm sure navigating it didn't feel familiar to anyone but what the hey, it was a homage that took a couple years to fully implement and it gives me a time-tested city structure that looks good tacked onto my wall. I'll take it.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



Joined: 27 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Civ vs Bard's Tale breakdown:

Civilization vs Bard's Tale I: Advantage: BARD'S TALE. Do you know anyone still playing Civ? The original BT is still a fantastic game. Creepy, claustrophobic and deadly.

Civ 2 vs Bard's Tale II: Advantage: CIVILIZATION. It's close, very very close. The Bard's Tale might be the best sequel of all time -- in terms of following a truly great original game, I mean. If the original Civ was a little better than perhaps we wouldn't have all been monkeynuts for Civ 2.

Civ 3 vs Bard's Tale III: Enormous Advantage: BARD'S TALE. BT3 is difficult, what with most of your helper buddies like Garth and Roscoe being dead (spoiler). I don't know anyone who liked Civ 3 over Civ 2. Or who liked Civ 3.

Civ 4 vs Bard's Tale Construction Set: Enormous Advantage: CIVILIZATION. JC Fun Fact: When I moved to Colorado I picked between developing Chicks Dig Jerks or what would have been a mod made with the Bard's Tale Construction Set. I actually got fairly into the scripting language before ditching it and settling on Inform 6. Which was great, as I learned how to program through I6. If there had been more of a community in 1998 for Bard's Tale games I guess nobody currently here would currently be here. On the other hand, I'd have a lot more moral support for continuing to show up to work and this website drunk.


LEGACY

Alpha Centauri vs. Wasteland: Enormous Advantage: BARD'S TALE. The games use pretty much the same engine as their predecessor and you need to consult reading materials to make any sense of either of them: for AC you need... you fawking NEED... the map on your wall. For Wasteland you need to read from the manual to get the game's story. Which would you rather play, though?

TESTICLES

Lack of Adolph Hitlers vs. Getting Fucking Bombed In a Video Game: Advantage: BARD'S TALE. Every year there is some guy who fucks up picking a fantasy baseball team. This guy is already unwittingly deciding what round to take Cory Lidle in, he just doesn't know it yet. Anyway, Adolph Hitler not being the grandmaster and Civ Head of Fake Game Germany in any of the Civ games is a goddamn travesty picked by the same kind of clueless moron. I'm sorry the most evil man in the history of the world happens to be the one leader everyone thinks of when it comes to Germany. Everyone except for Sid Meier, I guess. Leave Mein Fuhrer out of the German version of the game, I don't give a crap. But don't treat us (or THE U.S.!!) like mouth gaped, gap-toothed children. The Bard's Tale demonstrates that getting nicely buzzed is important in getting anywhere in life and that lesson is paying dividends for me even today. "Ha, ha, more jokes about drinking" - nobody's fucking joking. I would not have anything I currently value if I couldn't imbibe the occasional glass of wine... and reflect. Eat shit, Sid.
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Eat shit that you made the 10th best game of all-time!" I mean. If that makes any sense.
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bruce



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:
"Eat shit that you made the 10th best game of all-time!" I mean. If that makes any sense.


Uh, yeah. You need to drink more.

Also, Chris Crawford, once-great game designer, but for the last, oh, DECADE AND A HALF, BATSHIT INSANE FUCKNOSTRIL, has a new iteration of the Orgasmatron.

http://www.storytron.com/

Bruce
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Ice Cream Jonsey



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#8 - DOOM

IBM PC



I was in college when Doom got big. I didn't personally jump on the bandwagon for this one until late. Back then everyone was busying their shorts over Command Keen type games which were a pretty big leap in terms of what people with PCs had to play. They were mostly distributed by bulletin boards and Apogee would call their compressed files "#1-KEEN.ARJ" and so forth, so they'd get to the top of listings. As if they needed to do such a thing.

I never got into the BBS scene while in Syracuse, so while I had a vague memory that something called "Doom" was everywhere, I didn't know what to make of it. I downloaded the shareware version on a winter break and played it straight through. It was completely revolutionary.

I mean, it ate Wolfenstein 3D's lunch and every one of us loved all versions of Wolfenstein. It wasn't until recently that something with "Wolfenstein" was attached to it that wasn't unquestionably great.

(An aside on Castle Wolfenstein, because it's not on this list: I bought it from a company called "Silicon Express" and this thing with production values barely above a Sharpie shows up. There were rumors that it wouldn't work on a PCjr, but we were willing to try it back then. It took forever to load and we fully expected it to fail, like Spy Hunter did, but the damn thing worked. Totally creepy and probably still holds up today.)

The Bad Guys you face in Doom were unlike any thing else we had ever seen in a video game. They look silly now, but those little bastards were mean, clever and vicious. Even the guards in Wolfenstein 3D still had that Hogan's Heroes stink about them. Plus, we can understand killing Germans. Odds are that every one of our grandfathers did just that. We weren't all that far removed. The things that Doom would throw at you were dark and Satanic. John Romero's head even shows up as an enemy at one point in Doom 2. id was capable of putting anything out there.

The attempts to remake it all fail to some degree, except for Doom 2 -- Final Doom wasn't even made by anyone at id, Doom 3 is a nice little haunted house simulator but way too long (read: tedious) for what it is and Quake, Quake II and Quake III are really just engines. Each release is like Warren Sapp Getting Fat. An aside!

Each year the networks start running these features on how Warren Sapp really Lost Weight this Offseason and is Really Going to Try This Year. It's been going on since he was fucking drafted. In shape year, fat year, in shape year, fat year... it was dependable. Every other year at first, when he could still produce and now it's just constant. I had flipped onto the Raiders game a few weeks ago to see how Aaron Brooks was doing and sure enough one of the announcers was describing Sapp's off-season where he really decided to focus. Guess it was a Fat Year last season. Same thing with id games: They care about story! Now they don't! Now they do! Now they don't! But at no point do they simply go out and try something somewhat new like they did with Doom. Of course they don't have to and don't need to and the individual team members all do their jobs competently -- Paul Steed's work with Quake III still looks incredible, for instance. It won't happen again and I'm not crying about it. Lightning, as they say, was caught in a bottle and sometimes that's enough.

Oh. Right - one of the Columbine kids tried his hand at making Doom levels and they were, of course, terrible. Aside from the obvious reasons why we should all be glad they're dead, the two of them eating the business end of each other's weapons ensures that neither one of them would ever get hired professionally. I know I sleep better at night knowing that they are not a couple texture tweaks away from getting hired on by the Godfather team.
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the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!


Last edited by Ice Cream Jonsey on Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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